A really dumb question But....

I have the worse soil in the universe. Its hard,clay type. No matter what I do it gets so hard that water cannot get in it at times. last fall we ripped up most of the yard and replanted grass seeds, the new grass took great. Now I am wondering how I can get more acid in parts of it for those plants that love acid soil?
Thanks
tamlamb

tamlamb, the only dumb question is the one that you don't ask. Never be afraid to ask about something; that's how you learn.

Could you go into details about what you have done? The simplest (simple! Ha!) way to turn clay into viable soil is to add organics. Compost, garden wastes, leaves, grass trimmings, etc. etc. The speed in which you convert is dependent on how large a percentage of organics you can work in.

Brook has (as always *S*) given some great advice there. Another tip about heavy clay is don't dig it over while it is wet, it ruins the soil structure.

What is the current Ph of your soil? In our garden we have acid pockets and a band of acid soil which runs across the back garden, the remainder is neutral. If you have neutral soil you can get away with planting some acid lovers anyway. Let us know what you want to plant.

Baa: Great tip about working wet soil. Every spring, I have to watch my DH like a hawk, since he wants to get in the garden beds and start turning them over in preparation for garden veggie planting. We have very wet soil in early spring due to snow melt off and spring rains. Our soil is definitely not clay, but it still clods up if turned when wet.

Brook: Concerning adding waste to the garden..back in Indiana when I was a child, I can recall my dad doing just that. I remember seeing grapefruit rinds, egg shells, coffee grounds, etc. sticking out of the soil.

Here in Alaska, however, I have to compost first, since nothing breaks down all that well in our cool soil, and the nitrogen needed to feed the plants is diverted to breaking down the waste. Even grass trimming are added to the compost, rather than used as mulch. We have to deal with slugs around here, and any mulch can be a delightful bed for the little devils. It's interesting how different climates require different measures.

Tamlamb: Brook is right! It's never stupid to ask questions. I've always had immediate responses when I ask for advice of information, and I've never regretted asking. We've all been in the learning curve, and in fact, we're all still in the learning curve...you just go on to the next level.

Tamlamb, where I live the soil is also hard as a rock before it's been "added to".We've had our main garden going for three years now and before we started working the soil weeds wouldn't even grow there. We have added soooo much compost, horse manure, steer manure, peat moss, vermiculilte, and worm castings--- last fall I shredded all the leaves I could find and put them on top of my beds, left them there to deconpose all winter. I can't believe how nice the soil is now, earthworms even showed up. Until this spring I have never found a worm living here.I tested the PH and it is 7.0. So,I would say just add as much organic "stuff" to your soil as you can and dig it in at least 18 inches and you should have really good dirt in no time. Good luck and happy digging.

One exception to your comments, Dguimo.

Unless you live in the great white north (sorry about that, Weezy), it isn't absolutely necessary to dig the organics in at all, let alone 18 inches. Just piling them up in layers is enough. The worm critters will find it, and draw it down into the clay.

That's an overstatement, of course. And it does take time. But even when opening a new bed (and you ain't seen clay until you see my place), I never till deeper than about 8 inches.

Different strokes for different folks, is all.

Brook, I'll see your clay and up the ante with my limestone. I thought I had it bad in Oklahoma, (and granted I don't have the wind anymore), but this stuff is the pits - brick-red (and brick-hard) clay soil, until you hit bedrock. Which might rise up to greet you before you stick a shovel in the ground - we grow rocks around here.

However, after just one year of adding amendments, I'm already seeing improvement in the soil, at least in the first few inches. And I'm finding a lot more worms, which is nice :)

tamlamb, back to your question. Before you add anything to lower your pH, have a soil test done and make sure you need to do that - your soil may be plenty low on the pH scale as-is.

Or, depending on what you're wanting to grow, you may want to dig a trench, fill it generously with peat and some slow-release fertilizer. Or add some leaf mould or compost for good measure. I did that with azaleas in Oklahoma, and they did GREAT, even though the soil around them was nothing but gumbo clay and mortar droppings courtesy of the bricklayers.

If this is clay competition then I'm joining in! Just a few miles up the road from here I sank thigh deep one winter trying to cross a field, very embarrassing! The ground here is also heavy clay but fortunately not quite so deep although standing in one spot for a long time during winter isn't recommended for reasonably clean shoes.

If you want to break the ground up a little (and it sounds as if you need to), growing something with strong root systems like potatoes is an idea. OK so you don't want a garden full of tatties but you can rotate the beds to include some. It's one of the techniques used here for old clay grassland someone wants to improve for crops.

Baa, if it ever gets soft enough for you to sink into it, then you're not even in the running for third place. Ours is either stone-like, when it's dry, or, when wet, like a slick of something slippery on top of cement.

As for growing roots to break it up, turnips are one of the best for this. Unlike most bulbous roots, turnips don't seem to mind heavy soils, and go a long way towards breaking them up. Then, after harvesting, you can use the tops as additional organic matter.

Brook

Perhaps that might be true in the USA but I'm in the South West of England where it rains 8 months of the year! It bakes rock hard during summer and they still make bricks out of the stuff

This message was edited Saturday, Apr 6th 11:30 AM

I'm with Brook on the "no need to dig". Lots of organic mulch and let the worms do the work. Probably just lucky.
I've made some 'deep beds' which i did dig deep just the once. Now i'll never dig them again but keep mulching - and one of the greatest tips for us gardeners on clay - NEVER WALK ON THE SOIL.
I have as many beds as possible narrow enough to reach in from either side without stepping on them.
Nice to meet you Tamlamb, happy gardening :)

tamlamp, I live in northern michigan so we have about the same weather. I have a large garden and about half was heavy clay. In the spring I purchased a bunch of seed potatoes. After cutting them up I just laid them on the clay and covered them with about 6-8" of the cheapest hay or straw I could find. After the potatoes got above the hay I added more hay/straw. Once the plants start to set potatoes you can carefully lift the hay and pick some baby potatoes and let the rest get big. in the fall or as soon as I've picked all the potatoes I tilled the hay in. Then I covered the garden in more hay until the next spring. The next spring I tilled everything in and planted peas+ beans and kept the rows and everything else covered in hay. After that I was able to plant other stuff but I keep the entire garden with 6" of hay/straw. It has made a huge difference. It also cuts down a watering

Sari,
Do U have a problem with weeds from the hay? I put manure in my beds to help amend it & now have red clover everywhere Grrrrrr
Sugar

i've got some that i would see your clay and raise you with but not in the garden it is a little more sandy after you once break it up of corse i do have shelf rock 6 in. down in part of it but i have some that the back hoe fights with buck wheat will losen the soil too if you can leave it
for part of the summer

Weeds are not a problem for me