Need some help propagating Elderberries in Pa.

Hi, i just started my new elderberry obsession this spring buying 2 Johns and 2 Adams off Ebay. I just harvested over 2lbs of berries which surprised me being first season.
Im a noober, just looking for some advice growing, propagating these. Yesterday i found 2 wild big Elderberry bushes growing behind my customers house. I asked him if i could take some clippings in Nov, he said yea. The one bush looks like a native American Elderberry. But the other is definitely different. The leaves were more yellowish color. It was a huge bush, approx 15'x15'.
I was going to get at least 100 cuttings from the 2 of them.

My wild elderberries have hundreds of seedlings come up from the dropped fruit every year. I have to scrape or spray them from taking over.

First of all, my experience is mostly with S. nigra 'Canadensis'. I like to take 1'+ cuttings of Sambucus in early Spring, either dropping them in water until roots form, or just sticking them directly in the ground(usually 4-8") where they are to be. The amount of moisture in the area will have a significant effect on their establishment.. Nice moist areas requiring very little to no attention, and high-dry areas needing regularly watering the until established, or they will stunt. Next year I hope to do cuttings of these all thru the year and see when they will and won't take in the ground.. I think they might just take anytime the soil moisture is good. My favorite thing to do with these is stick them in the bank of streams and other bodies of water, in parks where they don't exist anymore. My understanding is the culture of these is all pretty similar between the species.
I did three patches of clones in my yard and you can see the difference location had on them. The dry one is about 3' high with very little spread, and the other 2 patches are 6' high with ample spread.
You can probably do them in a similar way in fall.. I just haven't because I'm usually busy with other plants. I'd love to see some pictures of these ones you are intending to work with.
Here's a couple pictures one of my 3rd year patches. You can find more details about this specimen in my journal. I knew this bush for years before development tried to wipe it out.. I was so happy I could give her a few new homes.
In any event, these are one of the easier plants to propagate from cuttings. Feel free to hit me up if you have any other questions.

Hi CraftyFox, The 2 i was talking about in my customers hedge looked closer to the Western Elderberry. I was told by a elderberry farmer to cut hardwood after late Nov when they go dormant. However im in Pa. and he was in Ar, or OK,. I was going to go over in late Nov and cut both and get some nice thick cuttings. When is best to try and root them? Can i start them indoors?

Are you referring to S. cerulea? aka Blue Elder? I doubt they are much different, as they are just a subspecies of S. nigra. I don't think there is a wrong time to do these, as long as you can provide shelter from the elements while they root out. Definitely easier to do them when they are dormant, as the leaves suck a lot of moisture. I had to keep mine indoors until the ground thawed, and they stayed pretty good in just clean tap water, changed out about every 3-5 days, kept in indirect light and out of heavy air currents. I reduced the number of leaves by plucking them off, only allowing the smallest to remain, and misted them when they looked to be wilting.. This will be more important in the early stages, and not really necessary once they have their secondary roots. Keeping them indoors and attempting to root them out, thru the winter sounds like more work than I'd want to attempt. I tried keeping a couple of my Prunus seedlings indoors over winter and I lost one, barely saved the other. Some plants need the winter dormancy and trying to sidestep it can be problematic. That's about the best answer I can give on that, because I have no experience overwintering Sambucus indoors. I know a lot of people take dormant cuttings and store them, refrigerated, until late winter or early spring, but I don't have the facilities for it.
As a small experiment, since no one wanted my extras, I left them in 1-2 gallon pots until this year, exposed to drought and all the weather extremes. They were quite stunted, on all levels.. Rarely achieving more than 18" height on each cane.
These are some tough plants. The tip about taking thick stock is a good one.. The ones I've had fail were mainly between a 1/4" and 1/2" diameter end pieces. I rooted pieces that were 8" long and pieces as long as 2', in water. I've rooted even larger cuttings just sticking them in the ground along a water source.
Hope that helps! Lucky for you to have Blue Elders to stock from. I have yet to find any around here, though I am hoping to get a cutting or two of Black Lace this next season.

Speaking of black lace, wow! I actually discovered them 2 days ago. Now they are on my must have list. I read you should have another nigra for best fruit production. Is this true? My local nursery has 4 black lace at $32/pc. They are proven winners and pathetic! Do you know where to get some?
I'll take some pics of the 2 bushes next Tues. and ill post them here.
Also regarding hardwood cuttings. I was thinking about just sticking the cuttings in a small container filled with good soil mix and letting them outside for the winter.
I think you are right about higher success rate when they are winterized.

I bought Black Lace at Bluestone Perennials but lost it eventually. I still have the golden one from them that comes back every year but is too crowded by other plants to do well.

https://www.bluestoneperennials.com/SALL.html

https://www.bluestoneperennials.com/plant-finder/?search=elderberry

The wild ones bear a lot of fruit but I've never used any.

Seedlings are too many to count (or keep).

A Elderberry farmer from 360 farms in OK told me i might want to consider planting Bob Gordon elderberry. Im in Pa near Philly.
https://www.starkbros.com/products/berry-plants/elderberry-plants/bob-gordon-elderberry

This message was edited Aug 21, 2020 7:26 PM

Do you do anything with the fruits?

I've went and taken a couple of the Black Lace cuttings, since I was already on a cutting kick. The two of them are about 30" each and I've stripped all the leaves except the top two sets, which alleviated the wilt. I'm just going to let them go in water for now and see if they strike and how they run. I'm still planning to do a better batch of cuttings early this next spring. If you are still looking for some Black Lace then, you should make sure you send me an D-mail and we can get you some cuttings as well.. If you are willing to cover the postage. I will also be doing cuttings of our Canadensis next spring, and have them available.
I have also read a number of sources stating that it is best to have multiple for good fruit set. I can tell you that it can also be multiple clones, if that is the case because all of the flowering ones in my yard are essentially the same individual.. With a solid load of fruit and flowers this year.. Their 3rd year from cuttings.