I'm planning on attempting to hybridize the Shirley poppy with the opium poppy, hopefully next season, if all goes well. I was wondering if anyone has tried this already and had success. If so, let me know how it went.
-Tony
Papaver (rhoeas x somniferum)
ToneBone
Jul 17, 2016
I haven't worked with Papaver before, but according to wikiSpecies, the hybrid you plan works:
https://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Papaver_%C3%97_trilobum
I bet there are some very interesting combinations possible, since there are so many cultivars of P. rhoeas and especially P.somniferum. Please keep us informed!
Edit: you may want to check if planting Papaver somniferum is legal in your area - I was perplexed to read that it is supposed to be illegal in Germany, even as a decorative plant. I actually consider this law rather ridiculous, because P. somniferum can get quite invasive...
This message was edited Jul 19, 2016 9:42 PM
This message was edited Jul 19, 2016 9:52 PM
ToneBone
Jul 20, 2016
-Plus it's a drug!
ToneBone
Jul 20, 2016
I am assuming that the peony varieties of Papaver somniferum may have derived from P. rhoeas through interspecific hybridization. Correct me if I'm wrong.
-Tony
This message was edited Jul 20, 2016 1:52 PM
ToneBone
Jul 21, 2016
Do you know if the hybrid is fertile or sterile?
Oh good idea Tony. I think it sounds like a really fun project , and I also want to hear more about it as you progress.
Where do you live?
I read somewhere, somewhen about the Shirley poppies, I think they were bred by the Reverend Shirley, in England, quite some time ago.
ToneBone
Jul 27, 2016
I'll have to start my seeds right now and choose a plant of P. rhoeas and P. somniferum to go in a small container, and plant the rest in the ground and let them bloom May-June of next season.
Tony ~ Did you have any luck with those poppy crossings?
Hybrids between Papaver rhoeas and Papaver somniferum may be difficult to identify due to the sheer diversity of form of Papaver rhoeas.
Those with P. rhoeas as the mother and P. somniferum as the father (pollen donor) can strongly resemble rhoeas and the alleles of the cross often act as recessive traits when backcrossed to P. rhoeas.
Those offspring with P. somniferum as the father and with P. rhoeas as the mother tend to appear more intermediate in form in regards to their parents than the opposite cross does. This version of the cross also appears to produce more stunted or dwarf plants, akin to the virus like condition reported for other interspecific crosses of Papaver.
Though the majority of such crosses may not prove fertile, it is not unusual for a small number of such hybrids to set fertile seed or bear pollen that may be used in other crosses.
Papaver crosses of this nature should have no value as sources of opiates but may still be illegal in some areas. Horticulturalists appear to list such crosses under the name Papaver rhoeas and avoid including any mention of P. somniferum to avoid unwanted attention.
To Isanara thank you for the comprehensive answer! If I'm not mistaken a hybrid exists in nature across Europe, known as Papaver Setigerum. It does not produce any opiates or precursor type alkaloids such as thebaine (technically an opiate and produced by P. Orientale). P. Setigerum is purple and produces viable seed. It's an interesting thread - wonder if the Reverend Shirley had P. Somniferum in proximity to P. rhoeas thus producing the first shirley poppies.