Volunteer Roses

Jackson, MO(Zone 6b)

We have three roses that grew from seed. We left them in the garden just to see how they would turn out. They are blooming now. Pretty disappointing. They look like Dr Huey. I'm not sure what I am going to do with them.

Elgin, IL(Zone 5a)

Dear Birder,

I can never resist your queries.

I will now announce my bias. Ick. Dr. Huey has no scent, and it doesn't rebloom. I have a client who had a 'Golden Showers' that was grafted onto Dr. Huey. They hate Huey, but we can't get it out of the ground now that it is established. And it's really big.

There are people who really like it (I am not one of them, but that's me - and it's your garden). And it will never die.

It's REALLY big too. If a rose is going to get really big, you should love it.

What to do with it? If you think you might like it, perhaps you can keep one. You don't sound that crazy about it. How about the garbage?

You are a lot of fun!

Your fan,

Donna

Richmond, TX

Since you think it grew from seed, perhaps it is not really Dr Huey. I agree that you should keep one to see how it develops. If you are worried about it as an invasive, put it in a pot where you can keep it contained.

Jackson, MO(Zone 6b)

Yes, I'm not at all crazy about the rose that came from seed. And, yes, I dislike Dr. Huey as much as you do, Donna. (Although you tried to be very positive!) :)
I think it's going in the garbage. I just wanted to see how it developed. It's between Chrysler Imperial and Jude the Obscure. I had The McCartney Rose in that area, but it died two years ago when we had a very cold winter. I purchased the above roses from a guy in STL that told me they were "own root" roses. I unhappily found out they were grafted from Dr. H.
So, I do find it interesting I have a "look alike" Dr. Huey in the area. I have three volunteer roses. Only one has bloomed.
Although The McCartney Rose, Chrysler Imperial and Jude the Obscure are all quite fragrant. This volunteer has no fragrance and is useless to me.
I will see what the other two seedlings become.

Elgin, IL(Zone 5a)

The only one of your choices that I can address is Jude the Obscure. I was actually sent it by mistake, and it has been slow to develop, but it has the most gorgeous flowers, an absolutely delicious and unique scent (guava?), great disease resistance and the plant has a nice compact shape.

I'm really happy that I have it. I find it to be completely unique, and I have close to 40 roses.

Thumbnail by DonnaMack Thumbnail by DonnaMack Thumbnail by DonnaMack Thumbnail by DonnaMack
Jackson, MO(Zone 6b)

I really like Jude the Obscure. The blooms to me, are quite unique. Depending on the development of the bloom, depends on the color it is. It has several blooms of various colors all at the same time. My Jude gets vary large: 7' X 4' even though I prune it judiciously.
My two Most Fragrant Roses are Chrysler Imperial and Fragrant Cloud. And, both of them are gorgeous and haven't been difficult to grow. Neither are very large. Of those two, I have to vote Fragrant Cloud.
I've decided to get rid of Fredrick Mistral. It's quite large, (7' X 4'), it's a black spot magnet, and it draws in Japanese Beetles. Gosh, why would anyone want to keep that!
I received Sharif Asma from Heirloom Roses (own root) a couple of days ago. It was in very good condition and nice size for a new, own root rose. I lost mine due to a very cold winter two years ago. It stays quite small. The blooms look so delicate and are very fragrant.

Elgin, IL(Zone 5a)

7 by 4! That's something to look forward to! That plant has a beautiful shape, but its been in for three years and is less than three years old. I will be patient.

My Louise Odier arrived today and was planted. I obtained it from Antique Rose Emporium, which is a very fine if expensive company. I wanted another Bourbon rose. I had Zephirine Drouhin at my former home, couldn't get it and was offered Kathleen Harrop instead. All I can say is wow. I just managed to get a Zeph and they are next to each other. I love Bourbon roses. Some of them are gorgeous but extremely disease prone, like the beautiful Madame Pierre Oger, and unfortunately Souvenir de la Malmaison is so full that it balls. I read in several places that Louise Odier is considered to be the best of the bourbons for its very strong rebloom ans relative disease resistance, so I bit.

I also struggled to grow a Dublin Bay up a trellis. It was my very first rose at my former home, but after three years it still struggled. Then I remembered that Tess does grow rather like a climber. I have one on another trellis that is doing well, and the one at my old house was great, so I got it from High Country Roses. Wow, I love that company.

I really wanted Sharifa Asma (what great taste you have!) but I read that it is truly zone 6. One of my favorite roses is Glamis Castle. It sparkled in 101 degree heat, much to my shock. I grew it in a container for a couple of years and then put it in the ground. It was so wonderful that I obtained another. If I spray it a couple of times with sulphur it is disease free. Another small rose. Marie Pavie is beautiful, scented, almost thornless, everblooming and bulletproof. I try to persuade people to buy it, but everyone wants red. Red is fine. I have red roses, and red peonies, but all these individuals have is red roses and red peonies, and I would love to get them to realize what they are missing.

I have started to purchase roses I know and love in multiples. I adore Rose de Rescht. I had one at home, and purchased one here. Then I realized that, hey, if it's so great, why one? So I bought two more. I love the small roses like that, Glamis, Sharifa and Gruss an Aachen that you can do multiples of. But then, there is nothing quite like a big girl who eats up lots of real estate - Constance Spry.

Years ago Milaegers in Racine stocked Evelyn, Sharifa Asma, Glamis Castle, Heritage, Madame Hardy, Rose de Rescht. Not anymore. A pity. When OI go to really good garden centers I see no antique roses at all - with the exception of Zephirine Drouhin, which is advertised in lots of catalogs.

I really enjoy communicating with you about roses. You are very knowledgeable, and go out of your way to find special roses. I have several clients with red Knockouts, because they go to garden centers and they are heavily promoted. But one of my clients lost three of them (I got there in time to save the other three), the woman next door had one for a single season, and another client bought two and lost one, while the Marie Pavies I put in her garden breezed through the winter.


Thumbnail by DonnaMack
Jackson, MO(Zone 6b)

My neighbor has Heritage. It's a nice rose. It does get big. She purchased as a grafted rose and half of it is Dr. Huey now. It looks okay. I told her what the dark red rose was and why. She didn't care.
I see so many Dr. Hueys around here due to grafted roses.
I lost the Sharifa Asma last year. I blame it on a cold winter. I like it so well I purchased it again. I have it close to our front entrance because it is small.
I tell myself all roses are beautiful, but I don't care for the Knockouts. You see them everywhere. Yawn. My brother who is in zone 7 lost some of his knockouts last year. Man, instead of replacing them with more knockouts, I would like to see him do a little research and find some other roses that would offer the same as the knockouts.
This year Jude the Obscure will probably shoot up. You know, sleep, creep, leap.
I moved Fragrant Cloud and it has pouted for two years. This year, it's starting to put out some blooms again.
I had Carefree Beauty for years. Then, it got Rose Rosette, and I had to remove it. It did not have fragrance, but such a dependable, easy rose. First to bloom, no black spot and last to quit blooming. I've contemplated re-ordering it, but for me, roses have to have strong fragrance. I haven't found anything to replace it for its dependability, long bloom and lastly, fragrance. So, that area of the garden thus far, has remained a little on the empty side.

Elgin, IL(Zone 5a)

What a shame. Your neighbor is going to entirely lose her Heritage. It's just a matter of time.

I didn't realize for years that Pickering grafted all its roses. Because they used hardy stock, none of my roses ever reverted. That's when I realized that it is not necessarily grafting that dooms a rose - it's grafting on the wrong stock. I generally use own root (now that Pickering is gone that's all I use) but I gotta tell you, those HUGE bareroot roses, while being hard to plant, jumped out of the ground and were really big in two years. (Right now High Country Roses is floating my boat. I love family owned businesses, and Matt there is wonderful). I have, this year, put in about five roses from there. I put in an own root Heritage from a company I won't name and it did nothing for three years. HCR (which calls it Ausblush, by the way) sent me a rose that was bigger than the three year one. I utilized HCR to replace a Dublin Bay that just wouldn't cooperate by developing (putting in another Tess of the D'Urbervilles, which has a climbing habit), replaced a The Dark Lady that got creamed by ice from my roof with Navy Lady (I have another Dark Lady), and two of the white Morden Blush sport.

Jude is just slow - but stunning. It is going to get all the time it needs. It has only produced about ten flowers in three years, but what flowers! And the scent is irreplacable. The Ingenious Mr. Fairchild is slow, but completely disease resistant and charming - it can take its time too.

Don't you want to slap roses that pout?

Carefree Beauty is a lovely rose, I think. I don't own it, but in the awful hybrid tea laden gardens covered in blackspot in August, there it was, just beautiful. And yes, for me a rose has to have fabulous qualities to be unscented (Morden Blush). Generally, I would rather have a once bloomer with a pretty shape and strong scent (Madame Hardy, Constance Spry) than almost any rose with no scent.

I completely understand the repurchase of a rose you love that doesn't work. Hey, I was trying to get two Icebergs to accompany Madame Hardy and went through 5 (6?). Sometimes you just have to give it another shot.

Jackson, MO(Zone 6b)

Is there anything the neighbor can do to get the Heritage rose under control from the grasp of Dr. Huey? I would think one could cut those branches off.
I think part of the grafted rose growing from the root stock is the fact it wasn't planted correctly. There's something about planting it below something to keep it from raising its ugly head. I read briefly about it once, but I don't remember the details.
My Jude is on a grafted rose if I remember correctly. This was one of the roses the seller told me was an "own root" along with some I have lost due to Dr Huey rising up. I hold my breath that it doesn't show up as Dr Huey one of these days.
It's just easier for me to go with "own root" even if it takes a little longer to reap the rewards.
I don't know anything about the rose vendors you use. It's nice to learn, however. I have just used Heirloom Roses because I know they are own roots. My brother ordered something like 8 from them one time. He did all of the right things and all of them died. He called them, they replaced them. Later, he figured out he used a herbicide on them instead of the black spot preventer. How discourging.

Richmond, TX

To discourage the usurping Dr Huey, it is better to rip the sprouting canes off by hand (pliers help); they will be less likely to grow back.

Jackson, MO(Zone 6b)

Oh wow. That sounds vicious. I would think it would hurt the entire rose bush.

Elgin, IL(Zone 5a)

I agree with Porkpal. PP is very knowledgeable about roses and is always right.

Is it too late to cancel your Heirloom order? They changed hands recently and the reviews are very mixed, with quite a few negatives since the they changed hands.

http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/159/

Unfortunately a company keeps its top rating, if it has one, for quite some time before the bad reviews knock it out. The previous owners did a great job and I ordered from them successfully.

The deal with grafted roses is to bury them deeply. The other part of the equation is utilizing a root stock appropriate to your zone. I never keyed into the fact, until recently, that all those wonderful Pickering Roses were grafted. I took a recommendation to order from them from a book on gardening in my area. None of those roses ever reverted. I have several of them here, since I was lucky enough to order from them in their last year. The tricky part with their roses is that you could not linger getting them into the ground, and they were so big that getting them into the ground could be tough. The last year they gave instructions that you should not even open the roses before digging the holes. And I always ordered at least three roses because shipping for 3-4 roses was $18. So quite a task, if you opened them all at once. I took their advice, and got four roses successfully into the ground. You should see my Stanwell Perpetual. It's ridiculous. It reached mature height in 2 years.

So they were great for people in cold climates. Huey is not a cold climate stock. That's why I never order from David Austin directly. That's what he uses. And WOW his roses are expensive. In the meantime I have found dealing with High Country Roses incredibly satisfying. I had a nice exchange of emails from Matt, one of the owners, and he says that they try to keep the cost of their roses down. They have $14 roses on their site. Who does that anymore?

Jackson, MO(Zone 6b)

Donna, thanks for the insight on Heirloom Roses. Of course, I didn't know about the change of hands etc. I'm usually the last to know! Oh well. :( Thanks for the up date.
I already have their roses on my deck waiting for me to get them planted. I guess I was lucky as they are very nice roses. They were quite expensive: I believe I paid $37.00 each.
I will check out your resources should I order other roses.
Thank you.

Elgin, IL(Zone 5a)

Oh yes, that was the other thing! Roses from Heirloom used to cost about $18.00 each. From the old company, I got several Sea Foams and Glamis Castles and was very pleased. I was stunned by the price increases.

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