need help choosing shrub

Help! I'm revamping 4 garden areas at once and I've gone brain dead.

I need to replace a shrub that died. It will be in between a hydrangea with large dark green leaves and a tall nandina. I don't know if it would look better for the new shrub to be taller or shorter than the hydrangea. I'd like for the leaves to be medium sized.

I'd like some fall color or winter interest (the nandina has little to no red to the leaves). I love flowering shrubs but trying not to create too many restrictions on choices. I don't really have a preference btw evergreen and deciduous, right now. I have both in that garden.

It will be in bright shade with no direct sun. I tend to keep the soil there on the moist side. Everything is mulched with pine straw. My soil has a lot of clay but that bed is amended fairly well. The soil is probably somewhat acidic. (Both hydrangeas bloom blue.)

I forgot to take a pic today so I'll do that tomorrow and post it.

Thanks immensely for all suggestions.

Firstyard, can you tell me the cultivars of your Hydrangea and Nandina. It would also be really helpful to see a pic of the bed so I'll wait till you upload that. Your bed sounds really good, you'll have many good choices.

Both the nandina and the hyd were already here when I moved in 11 or 12 yrs. ago.. I've researched the hyd and it looks similar to a Merritt's Supreme.

Will take pic soon.

My personal opinion but nandina is invasive so would skip that.

What about a midsized Loropetalum no bugs no deer

Can't kill the things and pretty and comeindwarf..mid and tall.

Daphne is pretty and smells wonderful in winter bloom ..but raise it a bit.it needs water but not wet feet. I ignore mine. No bugs no deer

Or a pretty mop head ?? I like ours because I can put a big metal butterfly in it and it looks sop retry...plus the yellows and green and delicacy look nice in any season. No bugs no deer... BUt I winder if snakes get under to wait for frogs. ..ours near stream.

Missingrosie, the nandina was already there when I moved here. The previous owners must have LOVED nandina bcs it is all over my yard! I dug up abt a dozen and gave up.

When you say mophead are you talking abt a hyd? I already have 2 in that bed and wouldn't want to put a 3rd.

I have always wanted loropetalums!!! But there is some reason I don't have any. Seem to remember it might have been our winters. Will look into them tho bcs I do see them around town. maybe there is a newer cultivar that is more cold hardy.

I also have always wanted a daphne! Seems like I don't have one bcs way back when I was first looking for shrubs, they were known as finicky.

I do need to check for newer cultivars bcs all my research was done 8 - 9 yrs. ago.

Here are the pics. The new shrub will go where the potted plant is. There really is not a lot of space. The hydrangea is usually a foot taller and abt 1 1/2' wider but I pruned hard early this year (yes, I lost my blooms - lesson learned). Next year I will let it get taller but hardly any wider.

Just to the right of the hydrangea is a dormant bleeding heart but I could move it if I had to.

I measured the space and a 3' wide shrub is the absolute largest it can take. That size would touch the house (which I don't prefer) and butt right up against the hydrangea and the nandina. I'd actually prefer a little clearance around all sides of it. So maybe 2 1/2' wide? Wow, that's going to make it really hard to get any height at all.

Daphne not finicky but after 10-12 years the healthy looking shrub starts to look a little parched and in 4 weeks it is dead. Just like that. But that is not a short amount of time. It needs no fertilizer. Mine lived despite ice storms and snow and freezing. And it bloomed and perfumed beautifully. BEST FRAGRANCE Got another going now. At age 62-- I hope to outlive this one too. It does not like wet feet. It does like to be watered. So well drained and no other care. I built a small mound and planted it.

The mophead I meant is a cypress. I will include a photo. The one closest is in bright light.

Looks great with loropetalum - which also does fine in cold and ice and snow. Once I trained a loropetalum to a tree...THAT did bend in ice storm. Not meant to be tree. Top heavy. There are low...med...types and I had one go to 6-7 feet and about 5-6 wide. The ones in photo will go no more than 2 maybe 3 feet

Another photo is edgeworthia. Can't kill it. In winter ( google it ) branches bare and yellow crysanthamum like flowers appear with no leaves. Profuse flowering. ...highly fragrant... Snow and all-- they bloom

I also like the sweet Betsy but I think needs sun and the damn thing sends shoots up everywhere. Nice maroon flowers. Spicy leaves ....but those shoots....

I just planted a red buckeye needs bright light to sun - no idea how it would behave in your border.
Not good photos. Standing in house. Not dressed. Spent day mulching. Raking. TIRED
1. Loropetalum
2. Edgeworthia ( fragrant winter bloom)
3. Daphne
4. MOPHEAD ( great with purples, plums like loropetalum )
5.Mophead at distance. Creeping Jenny ground cover




This message was edited Sep 6, 2015 6:27 PM

The first show yews - not recommend. Too big. But in your other areas easy care. That is why my photo above looks naked...yanked the yew out yesterday. BIG job.
Second is jacobs ladder. Love it. Low light ok. Deer love it too.
Third is tall amsonia. LOVE it. Flowers pretty BUT the fall foliage is stunning. Glowing copper. Empty spot in winter tho. Returns faithfully. No fragrance. Summer bloom
Fourth plumbago. Easy care. For front not tall. .?? 12 inches
Last - the yews again.

This message was edited Sep 6, 2015 6:43 PM

I'm guessing where the potted plant stands is where you'd like to plant another shrub, is that correct? If so, it looks like about 4 or 5', is that correct too?

I would go with a conifer to add winter interest, something dwarf and conical or a pyramid form that's perhaps taller than your Nandina. If you're interested in a conifer, I can help suggest a few. If not, Missingrosie has come up with a few very good options.

Uh oh. I was suggesting possibilities for the other areas. If it was me doing this area in the photo ....out would come that nandina (I love nandina but it would have to go ) and then with it gone, I would enlarge and pull that area forward a bit more and put a small open tree of some sort there. A birdbath next to the pulled out area/ tree placed in the area where the potted plant currently is or a small 3 foot delicate bench. A pot of annuals next to that bench. Then the hydrangea and another. ....and some lower growing perennials in front like a shorter pale blue star amsonia - a swath of those.

Sorry, I guess I focused on your having to do 4 areas.

This message was edited Sep 6, 2015 7:22 PM

missingrosie, well I appreciate your suggestions anyway. Wish I could follow thru on your grand idea - it would be gorgeous! But there is little money for gardening and no strong man to help do the things I physically can't do. (Altho, I got a little unexpected money for my birthday and used it to hire a neighbor for a couple of hours of tough work. What a relief to have it done!)

I like the dwarf loropetalum but it may actually be too small. I need someone with a real artistic eye to tell me how tall the new shrub should be - taller or shorter than the hydrangea it will be next to. I'm not particularly good with design.

Mippi, yes, it will go where the potted plant is. But, no, the area is much smaller than it looks. Measured today and in order to have a little clearance all the way around, the shrub can only be 2 1/2' deep and wide. Used a couple of plant finders today and could not find a deciduous or evergreen shrub that would fit there, live in shade and tolerate clay soil (it's amended but still clay).

Unfortunately, I am not a fan of conifers. I guess if somebody gave me one I would use it in the backyard but if I have to buy something, I want it to be something I like.

With such a tiny space, I'm now trying to really think outside the box. Maybe a fairly tall perennial that has winter interest? I don't want a blank spot. Maybe I should stick with a potted plant but larger? Maybe a shrub trained into a small tree? (Probably can't afford one of those tho.) What else creative (and cheap) could I do? I've tried to think of something I've already got that I could take a cutting of and grow. Never done that before but there's always a first time. Can't think of anything for full shade tho.

So the shrub right under window is hydrangea? I would plant three of the same. . Would make the eye move better.

I think it is the bleeding heart that gives the eye a " whoops "
I love bleeding heart-- someday going to buy a yellow blooming.

I think taking the nandina out would be do-able...big but delicate. But I would need help digging a hole big enough --even for a smaller tree. Enlarging that corner may just require pulling the rocks out a bit father and killing the grass inside the enlarged space or covering it with newspapers.

What about a trellis nailed against that wall next to the window? That would work with your narrow space. You could choose something pretty to grow up it. You could make it or buy it inexpensively.

This message was edited Sep 6, 2015 11:22 PM

missingrosie, thanks for all your beautiful suggestions! But I'm basically a lazy gardener and I really just want to do something **easy** to fill in the hole and then get on to the other 3 garden areas. So I've got the 2 1/2' and nothing more.

The trellis would be really pretty. I just wonder if I should put nails in my asbestos siding. Will look into that.

The shrub that died was a sarcococca and I so miss that fragrance as I walked in the house! I would put another one in but it didn't look great bcs the shape and size of the leaves were too similar to the nandina.

I love bleeding heart, too! I have them throughout the bed and they are so pretty while waiting for the hydrangeas to leaf out in the spring. Then they get pretty much covered up.

Thanks again!!

Sarcococca - i am going to check that out. Same zone. I like fragrance. My issue is deer. And, I don't have the energy or knees I used to. I just planted a witch hazel - for fragrance and small size. Not fond of it not in bloom. Leaves sort of dull. Bleeding hearts old fashioned and take me home to brooklyn and that is partly why I love. I don't like nailing in house period, I just figured if off ground, you could keep a big pot of annuals for slow season on trellis. But leaning should be fine if you go that route. I have a purple clematis on ours and it is loaded with blooms for a long time. Sometimes a black snake perches in there watching the stream....frogs main attraction.

I hope you find a perfect solution for your area and will post a photo or two.

Mippi, you were right! I took a few new pics this morning and remeasured and the space is closer to 5 ft.. (How did I miss by that much?!)

I want a little clear space behind and around each shrub tho. Also I'd like to let the hydrangea grow a tiny bit wider since I have more room than I thought. So that would give me 3 1/2' instead of 2 1/2'. Yea!

Abt the new pics: I changed to a different potted plant; Long story abt why the nandina is shaped like that; The garden looked so much better before I had to prune off all the damage from the sheets of ice/snow that slid off the roof directly into the shrubs (I could have just cried!).

Just thought of another idea. When I moved here, the hydrangea was huge! I could stop pruning it and also stop pruning that side of the nandina. In a couple of years, there wouldn't be a hole to fill! And I can keep a potted plant there in the meantime. That is truly the lazy gardener's way out! I can live with that.

When my daughter's braces and a few other things get paid off, maybe I can tackle the kind of project missingrosie described.

missing rosie, I am going to remember the trellis idea!

Thanks everyone. It never ceases to amaze me how brainstorming can spark ideas and solve problems. Even tho I'm taking the lazy way out right now, I will have all your ideas when the time comes that I can revamp this area.

Sherry

Sherry, another couple of ideas is to just divide your Hosta and have that on either side of the Hydrangea to create more balance...and yes let the shrubs grow unless you 'have' to prune them.

Another idea is to build an Obelisk if you're at all handy, it's a 3D trellis. Oh, I meant to ask; what's in the pot of the first set of pics?

Missingrosie, you have a really good eye and your place is fabulous. I enjoyed your commentary -- giving the good with the bad for you shrub selections. I'm also a sucker for fragrance. Keep up the great work!

You know, I had thought abt that. I was thinking of dividing my older hostas this year anyway. But I still prefer not to have a hole all winter. With a potted plant, I can put 1 in for winter and 1 for spring, summer and fall. Hey, maybe I'll pot up one of my hosta divisions! In fact, I could sink the pot in the ground so it looks more like the other one and they are balanced. Then, come winter, I'd do the same with the winter pot.

That was a hydrangea in the pot in the first set of pics. The dark green leaved hydrangea under the window had some low lying branches that took root. So far, I've gotten 4 baby hyds that way.

I am not handy at all, but one of my neighbors is. I hire him every once in a while. I'm sure he could make me one - just a matter of saving up the money for the materials and then for his pay. I would love to have one of those!

Thanks. I busted butt today. Planted 3 guara ( pink ) One white ( used small pots..gone are the days of buying big pots and dealing with digging big holes and more $$ too)

One white loropetalum..no fuss.

One St. John's wart to control erosion.

3 blue eyed grass

40 bags mulch

Painted a fence

And pulled clematis down for winter and screened the stream.

30 mosquito bites later... Half dead.

If I can get my IPAD sketch thing working ( A grandkids game ) I am going to mess with your area Sherry and post it for you. Maybe you will keep it for future reference. I love your roof by the way and house color. Would go great with plums like loropetalum and weigela ? Spelling.


This message was edited Sep 7, 2015 11:38 PM

Lol...I call that busting your butt too, I'm sure the work paid off though, it sounds great (as long as you live to appreciate it).

I am NO artist.
But all did was plant a tree and fill in the area around tree with mulch. Can be a bench and not a tree

Take out the nandina

Didn't put in a trellis

And mulch and plant a few plants in along the walkway in front of where nandina was

Added a few annuals in front of existing shrubs.

Kids program. Not a lot of tools to work with.

I have roof envy. I love your roof.


This message was edited Sep 7, 2015 11:55 PM

I kind of like missingrosie's idea.

Looks good Missingrosie, I love Firstyard's roof also, actually...it's a really cute house.

Wow!! How cool! Thank you, missingrosie! That was really sweet of you. I will print that pic and put it in my gardening file for when the day comes that I can revamp that whole area.

I'm so surprised ya'll like the roof. I was disappointed when the color turned out to be different than it looked in the brochure. But I guess the shape is kind of interesting architecturally speaking. BTW, Dalton is (or was?) the carpet capital of the world and my street is part of a mill village that was built in the 40's.

I'll tell you abt this garden area and my first big (huge!) landscaping mistake as a first time home owner. When I moved in, there were 2 huge Bradford Pear's in the yard. I love the look of BP's but we all know what happens to them. In fact, my neighbors told me there had been a 3rd one but it went down in a storm. One of them was where my end-of-the driveway garden is now and I feared it would break and fall right on my daughters' bedroom.

So, with nary a thought about what was being shaded by said tree, I had it cut down. What was it shading? My shade garden along the side of the house! And the dogwood tree. Dunce that I am, it took me a while to figure out why the front half of my hydrangeas and hostas were suddenly being scorched.The dogwood tree has really suffered as well. (That area gets 10 - 11 hrs of sun a day and a lot of it is broiling hot afternoon sun.)

So that left nothing but the evil nandina (which was already there when I moved in) to shade my garden from that hot sun. I had to let it grow larger and larger. I even had to transplant another one to go beside it to provide shade for the front half of the garden that was getting scorched. (It abt killed me to do that, but I have to work with what's available in my own yard.)

Someday when braces and college and weddings are paid off, I will have the garden missingrosie designed (albeit with something to replace the nandina to give shade).

Glad you liked my near midnight feeble attempt.
I TOO had the shade disaster ...but it was not me...it was an ice storm to beat all. And that tree kept the algae down in the stream .... Now I have to treat it and kill frogs...plus everything growing the shade burned. The butterfly maple still has not forgiven me.

I love the color of your roof and it underwrites the architectural style.

Our town - Hillsborough NC ( near Chaoel Hill ) is a mill town too.. Cotton even tho NC is known for tobacco.

You have to hire for the labor and that is why things cost. Materials for the landscape fabric and mulch and the annuals and a small sapling would be under $200 for what I did. A bench a bit more. But having kids go thru college -- may as well be 2 thousand. Glad they are done! My daughter tells me the grandsons braces are costing her a few thousand. WOW.

Here is the tree I lost. A birch. Grows rapidly - part of the brittle problem... I still want to cry, but I am the one that raised and canopied it and so...I have to take some of the blame..had I left the supporting limbs...maybe it would still be here

The second photo -- all that green...those are WEEEEEEEDS...that area was filled in with low growing shade loving things..I pulled out when burned and mulched and the weeds came..(.?? In the mulch????)

Last...the snow is pretty...If we would get more than the occasional snow..it would be great...but our winters are short and rather than snow..we get ice storms. Devastates the trees and as the sheets slide off the roof....ugh...ruined the BEST pomegranate...it had brilliant orange flowers.

This message was edited Sep 8, 2015 11:39 AM

We all have a someday...have fun.

Oh, your tree was gorgeous! I can see why you miss it. Is that a lorepetalum next to the porch? I saw a dwarf weeping ruby loropetalum today at Home Depot. It almost jumped in my cart! I was not supposed to even be looking that way - just needed compost and soil conditioner. But of course I will be researching it later tonight.

Despite the weeds, your modern giraffe?/reindeer? metal sculpture looks great.

And we have the same kind of winters here. I, too, would like a little more snow and less ice.

Yes you have similar issues in georgia.
Look at first photos , first photo that is dwarf loropetalum

So go very tall and wide. So research before you buy. If you want the tall full nandina shape ..a tall loropetalum would fit the bill

The weeping thing is mophead cypress . Tall weepy and conical
I took this photo for you just now it is next to the butterfly maple towards the back end. I just whacked it yesterday.

Closer...
Stringy needle.
Fast growing too fast for me
No issues
No deer
Sun or dappled

Love the big rocks lining your stream, also the stone foundation for the porch and various metalwork. You have lots of interesting things to look at.

For some reason my computer wouldn't load the enlarged view of your 2nd pic. It must be as tired as I am. I've been digging and transplanting all day.

Agree, the brickwork is beautiful (it looks like dry stacked bricks), that's one porch you don't want to plant in front of. It looks even better with the whole tree trunk columns, very rustic.

Got your second pic to open today. The closer one. I love the weeping look of it!

You see how HARD I am trying to get rid of your nandina!! (Grin)

That stone is lilac blend flag. I do not think it is from NC but it wasn't a big upgrade so must be close

The cedar trunk is really a length of log they hollowed out and fitted both halves around a metal pole.

The cedar has holes in it..some kind of bug. Been wondering if I should tent it. The arbor same thing. It came with the borers. I don't want it to crumble. But not sure what to do. I got red buckeye pods!!! I hadn't idea the buckeye flowered this year. It was planted two years ago and ashamed to say moved it 3 times!!

Edited it to say I a bringing apod to the hubby's urologist ( he has appt today ) it reminds me of his 'end of town!' It is a red buckeye shrub.

This message was edited Sep 10, 2015 9:44 AM

Yes, I see! (smile) You are tempting me! But I have to be strong and wait!

Ha! Ha! When you least expect it you will be outside in your PJs whacking it down.

I have to admit, I do love the gracefulness of nandina and the gorgeous berries. I steeled myself to rip out a beautiful clump with a promise not to plant invasive species. I used the berries in holiday wreaths and in the fall the nandina really shines. Burning bush too... Got rid of those.

Yes, the berries are pretty when everything else is so drab. The one redeeming value.