Dahlias: Spring 2015

Thank you for the kind thought.

Veronne's dahlias arrived. Okay looking and all had nice eyes growing. I am up to 150 now including some moved from flats to pots because eyes developed. Still tons of pots with no plants showing. I guess I could enter into the inventory the ones that have actually broken the surface. I do have a field for that.

Go Mary.

I think I may have tips breaking through.

Oh my ! I would love to see all those Dahlias when they bloom Mary. I still have to pot about a 1/2 dozen or so. This weekend is supposed to be sunny so I hope to get a lot done outside.

Yay Turtles, that is always exciting when things start breaking through in the Spring! I make rounds almost daily to check to see what is emerging, weather permitting. We have had so much rain lately, I am behind on my inspections. lol

FWIW, I've stored my tubers in Saran for years now. I divide them in late fall, and last winter wrapped almost 1,000 tubers. I've opened them all up over the past two weeks and had 9% losses. I don't like losing even that much but it still leaves me with far more than I can ever plant!

I'd encourage some more of you to try the Saran approach - even on a test basis with a few of your plants. It's so pleasant to unwrap tubers and find them firm and unshrivelled. Quite a bit of work, but yields sweet results.

I definitely plan to use the saran method more this fall. Most of the ones I wrapped this year look very good. I tried this method a few years ago and had quite a few that rotted. I imagine it's very critical to have the outside of the tuber completely dry before wrapping. How long do you dry them after dividing before they get wrapped? I've also heard that when you unwrap them they must immediately be potted or planted. Is this true? What is the usual temp in your storage area?

I tried wrapping a few about mid-winter. My tubers were stored in vermiculite and after January many began to shrivel. We have very low humidity here during winter. I wrapped a few of my favorites that were beginning to shrivel since I felt I had nothing to lose at that point. I haven't unwrapped those yet but I'm sure my attempt came too late. I'll check some of those today. Except for the last two years I've had great luck storing in vermiculite and/or potting soil.

I used the saran method for two years. The first year was really great. The second one not so great. But I am pretty sure I didn't dry them well enough. I will be interested in the answers to your questions Dan.

I got my Alan Lowe tubers this afternoon. Wow! If I could store tubers that look like this I'd start my own business. They look great. The ones I got from Easy to Grow Bulbs, not so great. The Vancouvers look okay. All three clumps are sprouting. The Otto's Thrills are small clumps with no sign of eyes and at least one is a little soft. The three OTs may be going back. They're the main reason I ordered. I'll wait a day or so and see what they look like. No sense keeping something if it looks doomed before it's even planted. It's sometimes surprising what will grow and produce nice blooms. But I do have serious doubts about a couple of these.

psudan, some attempted answers to your questions. Sorry if the answer's too long!

1. After digging in the fall it's usually several days and sometimes 2-3 weeks before I get round to dividing. They sit on trays in a coolish room. Then I divide one clump at a time, dip the cut surfaces in powdered sulfur and wrap immediately. By then of course they're perfectly air-dry. I've included a pic of some wrapped tubers.
2. The temp in my storage room is about 50 degrees all winter - I'm blessed to have built in a cold-storage area when I reworked the basement years ago.
3. This year I unwrapped them about 8 weeks before anticipated planting day. 6 weeks would have been smarter, but I was impatient. There's a pic of a typical group right after unwrapping.
4. The I do something a bit unconventional. Usually half to two thirds have no visible growth yet, so I put all the tubers of one variety in a ziploc bag, drip maybe a dozen drops of water into the bag and seal it. Left in a warm room, the bag becomes a miniature moist greenhouse with a bit of moisture even condensing on the inside. Surprisingly, they don't rot. Not surprisingly, they bud out - after two weeks around 80% are showing buds. I included a pic of one of those bags.
5. That's when I begin the process of potting them up if the tubers are compact or laying them in trays of very slightly moistened topsoil if the tubers are big. I'll keep them indoors as long as I can (under makeshift lights as they grow) and then when they're at risk of going all leggy move them out to simple coldframes in the garden. They'll go in the ground just before the end of May.
6. I don't feel any huge rush to pot them as soon as I unwrap them. They're just the same as tubers I've bought - I aim to get them into soil soon after they arrive but am relaxed about the timing if events conspire against me.
7. And one last comment in response to some previous posters - if a tuber's too big I cut off a good chunk or even most of the tuber to make it fit my pot. (Remember the Greek myth of Procrustes' bed, where guests who were too tall were amputated until they fit!) I've never found it do any harm - the tuber's job is essentially done by this point, as its responsibility is to deliver the tuber to the next season in a viable condition.

Hope this answers your questions. And CHEERS! - today I found the year's first snowdrops peeking out from the remaining snow. Winter is officially yesterday.

Thanks so much for answering my questions and congrats on getting winter over and done with. I think my biggest issue is lack of a storage area with close to ideal temps. I have stored in the attic the past few years. There are several vents including a rotating roof vent. I've never actually checked the temp but I'm guessing mid 50's to around 60. I'm sure that's a bit too warm and has caused the shriveling. I will certainly follow your advice this fall and wrap at least half of mine. Included will be my favorites which I usually lose most years anyway. So nothing to lose there. A friend once told me she stores her favorites using two or three methods or media, thinking if one way doesn't work in a particular year, there is another to fall back on.

I normally dig and divide within two or three days. Then I dry an additional day or two. Sounds like I should be waiting longer. Fall is such a hectic time of year for me with the tubers and yard work along with archery season and the fall/winter fishing that I'm rushing to get everything done at once. This year I'll attempt to slow down, maybe. lol Those are great looking tubers in the photo.

Thanks again for taking the time to answer the questions. Very good info there! One more question if you don't mind. When you add the water to the bagged tubers, is there any type of storage media in the bag or just the tubers? I'm thinking this might also help plump up some of the slightly shriveled tubers.

I don't have any storage media in the bags - just tubers. It's not to store them, just to put them into a humid environment for a couple weeks to promote sprouting. But it may well help your slightly shriveled tubers. Since it doesn't seem to promote rot in the short-term, what's to lose in trying?

May I chime in with one more question? You dig the clumps, then lay the clumps dirt side down (?) for up to 2 weeks (what would be the shortest period you would leave them there (?). You don't wash them at all (?) just know the excess dirt off, trim roots (?) It looks like the ones wrapped in saran were divided (?)

Okay. More than one question. I store in the crawl space which runs 50-55, or in the heated garage on the far side on the floor. Can get as low as 45 sometimes but generally the same temp as the crawl space but I can ensure no light down there. I am only 5'2" so bending over down there is no big deal, when I check them once a month.

I also thank you so much for your information. I suspect it is "Right FACE, all ahead MARCH" this fall. lol (hadn't heard the store about the amputees in many years.) But I did wonder how much I could cut off a tuber to make it fit. I only get maybe 50% small enough to lay flat.

When I dig the clumps, I wash them off with a strong hose spray, and then set them aside for a few days. Outside if there's no frost around, but here in central Canada it often has to be indoors in as cool a place as I can find. When I get round to it (hopefully within a week but sadly it has sometimes been quite a bit longer - somehow these amazing plants survive my neglect), I turn to dividing. I would say I never divide inside a week of digging, and the max may be 3 weeks (I'm not recommending that - it's just that these plants I love have to fit into a life that has many other commitments than plants....)

Then I divide them before wrapping. I enjoyed the suggestions in other posts about the tools people use - I've even used a power recipro saw on heavy duty clumps in the past! - but nowadays I get by with a set of long-handled pruners for the tough cuts, a pruning shears and a utility knife with a store of extra blades. Only after that do I wrap them - in fact if you choose to try the saran method you must divide first or you can't wrap in a reasonably airtight way. I wrap several tubers in a single stretch of wrap as detailed in the classic post on this method from the American Dahlia Society - http://www.dahlia.org/index.php?page=saran-wrap-tuber-storage -, label carefully and tuck them into plastic tubs which go to my cold storage.

Look, this method works great for me, but one of the fun things about dahlias is that while we all face the same problems, resourceful people have found many different solutions to them.

I feel strange doing it, but I have cut off 80% of a large tuber and had it grow just fine. After all, think of how many people grow their dahlias from cuttings? It's the DNA that matters, not the amount of starchy storage. But if I'm discarding a big part of a tuner, I try to take the decision before it has thrown many roots out of the end I'm removing. Don't want to discourage it!

Yes, I have looked at the dahlia society site. Actually I am a member. And I have Kevin Corralito's small book on dahlias where he also shows the saran method.

Now I am looking forward to the challenge this fall. Nuts absolutely nuts. lol

I have tubers sending up shoots daily. I am about ready to toss the ones in flats and they are doing nothing the last few days. I also think I will water some that have shoots. I was thinking that I would water from below only. Put maybe 1 to 1.5" of water directly in the flat and let them suck it up. It is the roots that need water and a light water soluable fertilizer not the tops. I use a moisture gauge to test if they need more water. I only slightly dampened the soil when they went into pots and that was a few weeks ago. Then as others sprouted in flats I potted them up. All that have sprouted are under good light. I keep the others without lights but they get it indirectly anyway. Don't see the point of light if there is nothing to 'see' it.

Or maybe do you think that they would sprout sooner if they were under light?

Thanks for all your help.

Oh I agree with you, no point in light until there's something actually doing photosynthesis! I haven't got my lights strung in place yet - must do it super soon as those with sprouts are reaching UP. Where does the time go? In spring it seems to pass three times as fast..

It was 27F this morning with frost on the ground. Drat Double Drat.

My peas are 3-4" tall and need to be out in the raised beds soon. Same with brocs and Bok Choy. I held off on the beans as they are so touchy to cold weather.

I took one more inventory of the dahlia flats and then pitched the lot. I have more than enough that are in pots and not showing yet, with a few more coming from Lowe's (Allen) and Veronne's. Enough already. I am so glad I held off til April 2 to pull them from the crawl space. Last year I started them at least two weeks earlier and I had monsters by now. Everything is so much slower this year, inside and out. Except for my geranium pots. They are blooming out in the garage under lights. Tough and hardy little fellows.

I fear all my garlic planted last fall has frozen and rotted. I don't think I planted them deep enough and only covered with mulch. I think they need a good foot of snow to protect them. They were in the raised beds with only a few inches of mulch. Well, enough of being off topic. And back to dahlias.

I will take an inventory of my pots again and make note of which I have only one of and which I have lost all of. I will probably try to propagate cuttings from those for which I only have one as insurance and make note of those I really like that didn't survive and mark them for repurchase this fall. I get tired of the time it takes to enter new dahlias in my database when I have entries already there of flowers I really like. I may make note of the number of each color and each form and expand that a bit for more variety. And then there is always the chance of someone wanting something I have for exchange.

I recall a few reluctant tubers that weren't showing anything so I may get down today to visit them and encourage them to grow.

Pitching the ones not eager to grow is the only thing to do to save our sanity.

Garlic is tricky even here but I ordered some from our friend, Ken (ATP), and I'm eager to try the one he loves but I won't plant it, just eat it. I've never had great success with huge heads. The heads I get are the type I wouldn't even buy in a store!

Yes, I bought quite a bit of garlic, all kinds from him last year. A bit spendy and frankly I guess my tastebuds haven't been able to do them justice. I will try again with 'garden variety' (not from the store, but from our botanical garden.)

I checked my flats and most of the tubers are sprouting. I also have several pots that I will move to the greenhouse as soon as I can make some room. I have seedlings everywhere. Tomatoes, peppers cabbage, cilantro, and lots of other stuff. I planted some Scarlet runner beans to train on my trellis.
As soon as it stops raining and dries up enough, I am going to finish the new Dahlia bed.

That's all good news, Annette!

Today I potted up about 100 coleus cuttings. Hard to believe how huge they'll be by September when they're growing outside.

My gosh Arlene. Where do you keep all those seedlings? I should try those scarlet runner beans. I have no luck with anything else that might climb. I love clematis. But I have tried to grow probably five different ones and no luck.

Two types of beans germinated today. I am so glad I planted later. I have no place to put them outside. The raised beds are still too cold. And I deliberately planted only a few more than I need of each type to save on space in the garage greenhouse. When the 20-30 dahlia pots with no growth send up shoots I will be in big trouble.

Mary how is KF and TE doing for you? Mine are showing lots of eyes and beginning to sprout. Our weather here has been fairly warm lately. But we have had 10 inches of rain since the beginning of this month. It's going to take a while to dry up enough to work the ground properly. I have moved several of my potted Dahlias outside to get ready for planting in the new bed. As long as the nights are in the 50's I see no reason to keep them inside. Besides it should cut down on the aphids. They seem to like Dahlias that are indoors.

Mary - They are all at the sunny and warm kitchen window. I have many more in the mini greenhouse on the (enclosed, unheated) sunny porch. I also have two more clematises growing in the kitchen. Maybe what you need is a huge greenhouse with an attached house.

The less water I use, the fewer of any pest I seem to have. A few years ago, when I was too generous with the water, I had to ditch hundreds of coleus so now I skimp on the water and the plants do fine. No aphids either!

KF and TE are doing great. Largest growth I have (about 5-6"). It would appear that the ones you received are on Alaska time as mine with eyes, which yours were, are really slow to sprout further.

Aphids are a battle up here although I banished the lily seedlings outside (where they perished) rather than let them infect others. Not soon enough I guess. One dahlia had them so I sprayed immediately with a soap/garlic solution. Seems to work. So does sitting the plant in 20F. lol

Back to to 32 this morning. Beats the 27 yesterday with frost.

I'm sure they will come around. They all look good. It's just as well that they are a little slow, it gives me time to get the new Dahlia bed done.

Oh Arlene! A greenhouse with attached home! What a grand idea.

I received an order from Clack's Dahlia Patch this afternoon. How do these seller's keep these tubers so clean and fresh looking? Outstanding tubers and every one sprouting. Each time I unpack a new order it leaves me that much more frustrated with my own storage efforts. It just ain't fair I tell ya!

I just received mine from Allen Lowe and I feel the same way. His tubers were just perfect and all had eyes or actual growth. It must remember him this fall when the buying mania sets in again.

But I must say Dan, any you have sent me would rival any of his, or for that matter most of the ones I get from other vendors. The local fellow just fell off my list of vendors. His tubers are so dessicated and small. And for $2 each, I can find many I like at Allen's.

Swan Island and Lynch Creek informed me the dahlias were sent. Normally 4/18 is the day I get so many packages that it becomes depressing. I'm happy to wait it out.

I did get a package of dahlias from Mandolls (ATP) and each one is perfect.

Thanks Mary. But any "ability " I might have had with storing tubers has taken a decided turn downhill. lol I stored somewhere around 400 tubers last fall. Half or more have been tossed. So far, only 35 or 40 have shown any growth. I will be shocked if any of the others show any eyes. I'm glad I ordered so many new ones. I will go the saran route method next time if for no other reason than I feel there's nothing to lose by trying.

I received a bag of 3 Otto's Thrill clumps from Easy To Grow Bulbs a few days ago. They looked terrible. I was surprised since I've always gotten great looking products from ETGB. I contacted them yesterday and they asked for photos. After they saw the photos, the new package was shipped today. lol They didn't even ask me to return the others. Go figure.

It's been 23 days since I sent the first of three e-mails to K Van Bourgondien asking for replacements for the dried our pieces of sticks they sent masquerading as dahlia clumps. I haven't heard a word nor do I expect to. As the Beatles used to sing, "I should have known better."

You really got his with the 'nasty stick' this spring Dan. I also will be trying the saran on some of my tubers, following the steps outlined by the gentleman on ATP. Or was it here? I get so confused. I did the big inventory today of potted no shows and potted with growth. We shall see. About 3-5 tubers show above soil growth each day. I know some of the tubers are small and worry they don't have enough 'umph' to carry them to maturity. If there isn't enough tuber how can it grow to a large plant. I know that it is said the size of the tuber has nothing to do with the final plant but there must be some limit to that.

Dan I would call them on the phone and explain your problem. It's hard to ignore you when you are on the phone. Send pictures by email if they request them , but definitely call.
And like you said tuber storage seems to depend on so many variables or combination of variables. I never have a problem with rot because I store mine in a box after they dry a few days after digging. No plastic bags or medium and they looked pretty good when I got them out. I am not sure why, by all the information I have read here, they should never have survived the Winter.(I also didn't divide mine until Spring, they were stored in clumps.Which is another no-no, I understand) But perhaps it is because the temperature is fairly constant and as for the humidity, well that probably changes with the weather. The building only requires heat if it is 25* or below outside. I have no idea why, but it seems to work. I haven't lost any so far. Knock on wood.

Dan - I bet all the Otto's Thrill dahlias will grow for you. Mary and I experienced how well those dried out clumps of Fubuki Red and White did for us last year.

Mary - Look at how well the Corralitos dahlias do and they arrive as tiny tubers! I will be taking cuttings of my favorite ones just to see how well I can do. This fall I will endeavor to locate eyes and store in the basement on the cold floor, away from any heat, and hope for the best. I won't bother washing either.

I think you might be referring to the posts above (on this thread) by muskokabill of Canada.

Ah yes, you are right Arlene. I have about five cuttings from Corrolitos this year. I really hope to have some tubers although it doesn't seem to happen from cuttings. And you pay as much for those propagated cuttings as you do for a tuber. And I always have a chance of getting multiple tuber from those. Oh well.

I am sipping a nice Fume Blanc and reading about the causes of WWI. I never realized it was so complicated. The author begins way back in Serbian history. Good think I enjoy history, especially military history. Too many sips on the Fume' to continue to knit my christening gown. A really nice pattern, vintage back to the '30's.

I'm certain the OT's in the photos were DOA. Not one clump had a tuber that wasn't broken. The last one was soft and seemed partially rotted. ETGB is a Top 5 company but things like this can and do happen. I've never had anything but great service from them. In fact, I hesitated to even mention this here for fear it might give someone a bad opinion of them. Their quick response time to my e-mail shows me they are very professional.

I never like to do business over the phone. I stick to strictly mail or e-mail. The reason being that I want to be able to print a copy of everything said if I need proof later. KVB is not the kind of company where a telephone call would serve any better purpose than e-mail anyway. Their ratings on the Garden Watchdog are all you need to see. They lie through their teeth no matter the form of communication ... if they respond at all. Hard to believe, but I was a big fan after receiving nice tuber clumps a year ago. No idea how that happened. I guess the planets and stars were perfectly aligned. lol

The past two winters have been snowy with very cold dry air. I'm sure that has a lot to do with the tubers shriveling. During a normal winter we can have many warm rainy days where the humidity is much higher. There have been winters so warm that there wasn't enough ice on the lake I fish to go ice fishing. I haven't kept any records but I'm willing to bet that these warmer winters have coincided with tubers in much better condition come spring.

Submit those photos to a dictionary for a visual view of "hopeless". They really do look terrible.

Companies change and their suppliers change so maybe that was the cause of the dessicated dahlias. Would be nice if they replied but after three weeks I wouldn't hold my breath.

It does make you wonder how they intend to stay in business. Or perhaps they don't. they are just living off the reputation of their predecessors for all they can get, then slowly downsize and disappear. Who knows. Maybe they are so overwhelmed with complaints that they think it is hopeless to try to make amends to everyone.

Those are the saddest pieces of wood I have seen to date. Hope Old House Gardens comes through with all my requests this year. they have substituted sometimes with my permission. and they are super with 'fixes.' One year I received a wrong dahlia, we identified it, and they said they would send the correct one the following year no charge. Lo and behold they remembered and sent it. Now that is service!

Dan investigated and they (and many others) are now owned by Gardens Alive. Buyers beware.

ETGB is doing the same for the ones I bought last year - both were wrong. Now I have to wonder if they'll be correct this year.

Since I usually order later or ask for later deliveries, I sometimes get tubers/bulbs that have been sitting around a while. I've come to expect getting an occasional lulu. I'm okay with that as long as the company will make it right. Most any reputable company will do that. In fact, I haven't really had many problems with the companies that are generally considered "losers."

When you read the positive/ negative ratings on the Watchdog, you can sometimes see a pattern develop soon after a company gets swallowed up by a parent organization like Gardens Alive. I've seen a lot of negatives from people who have successfully dealt with a company for many years only to see the products and service suddenly go downhill. If you were to check the date of the ratings, you'd probably see a trend showing about when that particular company was bought out by a bunch of crooks. Another group I steer VERY clear of is the trashy outfit who owns Direct Gardening, Four Seasons Nursery, Burgess Seeds, House of Wesley and many more. Their ratings are shameful. The sad part is reading the ratings of people who have been "burned" more than once by the same company. How some of these companies have eluded the Better Business Bureau is beyond me.