Need help...I would like to grow various oak/maple seedlings

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Here is my situation...

We recently purchased 10 acres of land in Southern Mississippi. This will be our retirement property. So, the plan is to move there in about 13 years. Right now that said land is full of long leaf yellow pine. I would like to change that. I want to incorporate Red maples, sugar maple , oaks, etc. But buying trees for 10acres is not in my budget.

I checked into arbor day foundation and they sale in lots of 50 for $39.00. The plants are said to be around 6"-12" tall. How old would these seedlings be? Could I purchase the seedlings and place them in containers?

Is it possible that I could grow them from seeds myself?

We currently reside in Northern IL.

Could I grow these seedlings in containers for a few years?

Would they be able to withstand our winters outside in pots?

I would like to have some decent trees by the time we move and considering how slow the maples grow, I would like to start growing them asap.

Any help is greatly appreciated

Andrea

Northumberland, United Kingdom(Zone 9a)

Try your state forestry suppliers.

But do keep a good number of those pines! Longleaf Pine is a very special tree, and getting rare in the wild due to over-harvesting and replacement with faster-growing pines in commercial forests.

Resin

Grants Pass, OR(Zone 8a)

6 to 12 inch seedlings are probably just yearlings, 2 at the most. I think that you could grow these for a few years in containers. You might consider burying the pots in a pile of straw or hay to help get them through the winter.

Scott County, KY(Zone 5b)

Don't buy seedlings from Arbor Day Foundation - unless you just want to throw some money at a nonprofit.

Buy trees for southern Mississippi from provenance suited to grow in southern Mississippi. And that is NOT going to be from sources in Illinois or Nebraska. Do more research on quality seedling growers for that warm a zone - likely to be MS, LA, AL, GA, or FL panhandle. Ask about provenance, not just cheap price - if you want the trees to actually grow.

You could cast seed about on your 10 acres - but collect/buy your seed from the same kinds of sources.

It would be worse than a waste of time to mess about with containers and seedlings in IL, especially up in Island Lake. If you were down in balmy Carbondale, maybe...

suburban K.C., MO(Zone 6a)

I'd go down to a park down there this Fall on vacation and collect shovel fulls of acorns from all the Oak trees you can find. I'd be sure to get some Live Oak acorns for there. The evergreen Live Oak tree would be a bonus if I lived there. I've never been to City Park in New Orleans, La. but I hear the Live Oaks there are glorious!

I'd second the state nursery but not from Illinois, Miss. I'd recommend ours but only for people here. But this is what Mississippi's should be something like. - http://extra.mdc.mo.gov/cgi-bin/mdcdevpub/apps/seedlings/search.cgi?record=all
Ours doesn't start until Nov. 1st but you can't beat the prices and the provenance of a state nursery. I once helped a guy plant 6,000 seedlings from the state nursery here on his 23 acres.

After Bing searching a Miss state nursery, I'm not sure if they have that program, if they do I can't find it I found this but I don't think that is it. - .http://www.mfc.ms.gov/seedling-vendors.php There might be some links there or information you can use though.

Yeah, Longleaf Pine is neat, I wish I could grow it.

I wouldn't grow anything in northern Ill. and take it down there though, yeah waste of effort and time. I'd buy mass seedlings from a neighboring state nursery down there before I'd buy from Arbor Day (in Nebraska) for that. I've been to Arbor Day headquarters, it's in Nebraska City, Nebraska.

This article is over 12 years old but maybe they are still there. - http://deltafarmpress.com/management/tree-seedlings-available-louisiana-landowners
You might also see if you can rent a "seedling planter", it's usually pulled behind a tractor, it is itself manned by a second person to put each seedling in a "hole" made by the planter's disk's and such. I was the planter-man when I did it before. Planting that many by hand would take a couple of weeks, a tree planter does it in about 2 days. Here I am (in the green) in one when I did it. Just a guess but 10 acres sounds like about 1,000 to 2,000 seedlings to me.
Be sure to drive in zig zags so they don't look like rows of trees in a tree farm later. Missouri had the seedlings and the seedling planter and everything we needed for the landowner here though (tractor not included..lol).
Will

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Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

UGH...I have a lot of stuff written and hit the wrong button and it was all gone. Soooo, I am going to try this again. Maybe a little shorter this time. :(

Resin: I do plan to keep a good portion of them.

Oregon: That is why I would like to start with seedlings. That is months of growing already done. I was thinking the same thing with the hay.

Virburnum: I don't understand. Why not Arbor Day? The maple seedlings are the ones that I am having a hard time finding in the South. I have found nurseries in the South that grow oak, and others but no maples.

Shortleaf/Virburnum: I definitely plan on doing some acorn hunting while I am there. Although, by starting with seedlings, I am already months ahead.

I have found a couple of different nurseries that grow the oaks, and various other trees that I am looking for. I one that I am having a problem finding are the maples. If I can't find a Southern source, then I may be forced to look elsewhere.

MS state does not have a nursery program but they do have a list of vendors. Which you did post. That is where I found the other seedlings.

LOL, I am over the longleaf pine. I want some color in the fall. :)

Well, there are a couple of issues...(Survey and critters vs young seedlings) Unfortunately, I don't have a survey on the property yet. So I don't know where the property lines are. So until I can get that survey, I would like to get my seedlings started. I was thinking about having the seedlings shipped to my mothers in the South. She has an dog kennel that she does not use anymore. I was thinking that I could put the seedlings are there and they could have a couple of years growth before being planted. I am afraid that if I plant the young seedlings, they will be eaten by the critters.

The property is too dense for any kind of machinery. :(

I really appreciate everyone responses. It is a huge help! Keep them coming

Elgin, IL(Zone 5a)

Have you seen the Garden Watchdog reviews for the Arbor Day Foundation?

http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/91/#b

The negative comments are very specific. I was warned away from them many years ago.

Cleveland,GA/Atlanta, GA(Zone 7b)

When you say MS state has no program, have you looked into the sales at state universities with ag programs? Did I miss that in an above post? University of Georgia has a spring and fall sale each year. Botanical gardens that feature forestry programs might be another source too. Another source is locally funded nature centers that sell natives. I'd say start with some established plants and seed others. We have maples too but they are not the maples of the north. I have a friend who has been researching and visiting nurseries that specialize in hardwoods for the past year. He's on a quest for specimen hardwoods. If you want a list of recommends just DM.

We are having an incredible nut year what with almost sixteen acres in mostly hard wood. I'd be glad to send you red and white oak, shagbark, mockernut (prized by growers of ghost orchids) and pignut hickory and lots more that I'm not sure of the IDs for postage. I can barely walk on our gravel roads without sliding on nuts. We listen to them hitting the metal roof all night long. :-)

Scott County, KY(Zone 5b)

There are very good reasons why you aren't finding many/any maples that you are familiar with in those southern locations - it's because they likely won't be successfully grown there. Provenance is very important for long term success of what should be long-lived plants.

Another little investment in research you should undertake: look at the USDA PLANTS database for native distribution of some of your favorite species. http://plants.usda.gov/java/

If they don't range down into southern MS where your property is, you probably are not going to have good luck growing them there.

Here's an example for Sugar Maple (Acer saccharum): http://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=ACSA3

It looks like there are reports for a handful of MS counties, with more in AL and LA.

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Donna: I have not. I will check that put. Thank you

May: I did check with MS state but I couldn't find anything. I will check again. I will also check with un of Georgia.

I am not familiar with any botanical gardens in MS or surrounding Areas. I will also check into that.

Yes definitely, I could use any recommendations.

Oh WOW! I would love whatever you could send me. Thank you so much!!!

Viburnum: Yeah, I thought it couldn't hurt to try. It is a gamble

USDA...I will definitely look into that, thank you!

Cleveland,GA/Atlanta, GA(Zone 7b)

I am not familiar with any maples since I grew up on Miami Beach. :) As said, we have maples volunteer here in Georgia but they are not the lovely sugar maples of the north. Atlanta is central to several destination zones and soils so when we looked for our other place we could have gone plains, Piedmont or foothills/mountains. We chose the later.

I agree that plant provenance is critical to success and is a feature of our property in N. Georgia. Aside from a kitchen vegetable and herb garden, plus some fruits, we grow almost entirely species plants as we consider our stewardship to the land. Sixteen of our seventeen acres follow the same management principals as managed nature centers. Meantime, I've got plenty of nuts, as requested, but don't intend to sort. Does anyone have recommendations, based on expertise or experience, as to what the original poster might want to grow if she ordered from a nursery? Without personally investing in research, do I have any of those acorns?

I learned several things from this thread. Now I know what a mast year is. We are having one for sure.

suburban K.C., MO(Zone 6a)

The Missouri state nursery has apparently opened up early online this year. I got a notecard from them yesterday that they're open online already. They sent it to me because I've bought from them before but I'm not buying from them this year. I have way too many plants sitting around in pots! lol This is what this state nursery looks like though. - http://extra.mdc.mo.gov/cgi-bin/mdcdevpub/apps/seedlings/search.cgi?record=all
I know this one doesn't do you any good but it gives you an idea of selection, sizes and pricing of seedlings at a state nursery. I know they're small but trust me they grow good. Here is a couple of Shumard Oak seedlings that I got out of a dumpster behind a Missouri Dep't of Conservation regional office around here, over 10 years ago (along with about 600 others). Here is a couple of before and after pics. One of those seedlings is about 25 feet tall now! I'd go for more than just Oaks and Maples (if you can get many Maples). I'm not sure what you have available in semi-coastal Miss. but I'd also have quite a few Bald Cypresses and Water Tupelos. If it were me I'd get some of everything for something like that.
I personally wouldn't have any non-natives like Ailanthus or Bradford Pears. I'd have all sort of little native understory trees too. If you wanna keep people out of there make a couple ponds, they'll be so many mosquitos they won't want to get out of the car, vice-versa of course.

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=water+tupelo+tree+range&qpvt=water+tupelo+tree+range&FORM=IGRE

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=bald+cypress+tree+range&qpvt=bald+cypress+tree+range&FORM=IGRE

Yeah, a treed property would be difficult for a tree planter and tractor. Boy howdy, you have alot of clearing to do, that's a big job, (remember to sell the wood)! My friend did Missouri's Farm to Forest plan. His acreage was kinda like a blank slate. I haven't heard from him or seen that property since then. He was talking about building a brick house on it and the land would be his yard. That is him on the tractor up there. He may even be watching here, we
met from that other gardening website. It's been nearly 10 years since I helped do that, he may have a genuine 23 acre forest now.
Will

This message was edited Oct 17, 2014 9:09 PM

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Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

May,

The sugar maples will definitely be the gamble for me. But, it is worth a try.

I Google Mississippi tress and found a 345? Page book on various species of trees...

I believe most of the ones you mentioned were in there.

Shortleaf,
Thank you for the link. I definitely checked it out. I think I have decided to start everything from seeds, just to keep the costs down.


Wow, nice find on the oaks!!!

I definitely want a big variety. This property is quite grown up so it will be a lot of work. I am waiting for a survey and then I have to contract with someone to cut a majority of the pines. Once that is done, I hope to have some nice size seedlings to plant out.

That would be awesome to see before and after of his property.


Thank you guys!






Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Okay...I thought that I would run this past you guys to see if this would work.

If I start the trees from seeds...Most of them will have to be cold stratified.

Seeds will currently be in zone 5. So if I start the cold stratification now and most should be done by the end of January. Could I put those in containers and keep going under T8 lighting until the spring? Or do they need to be kept cool? I don't have a greenhouse but I have a room inside my garage that I use to start my vegetable seedlings.

I was hoping I could keep the seedlings going under T8 until the spring and then start acclimating them to the sun rays. Then transport the seedlings to zone 8, their final planting place and continue to grow in containers there until large enough to survive the animals. lol.

Whatcha think...will this work?

This is what I want to be working with (I'm sure I will be adding to this list)

Acer rubrum (red maple)
Acer drummondii (Drummond red maple)
Acer palmatum (Japanese maple)
Acer saccharinum (Silver maple)
Acer saccharum Floridian (Southern sugar maple)
Betula nigra southern (River birch)
Carya ovate Southern (Shagbark hickory)
Carya tomentosa (Mockernut hickory)
Catalpa bignonioides (catalpa)
Cercis Canadensis southern (Eastern redbud)
Corylus Americana (American hazelnut)
Cupressus macrocarpa (Monterey cypress) just for fun
Fagus grandifolia (American beech)
Liriodendron tulipifera (Yellow poplar)
Quercus acutissima (Gobbler sawtooth oak)
Quercus falcate (Southern red oak)
Quercus macrocarpa (Bur oak)
Quercus pagoda (Cherrybark oak)
Quercus palustris (Pin oak)
Quercus Texans nuttall oak
Taxodium huegelii (bald cypress)

suburban K.C., MO(Zone 6a)

That's a nice list, Andrea. Your still thinking about growing them in the northwest Chicago, Illinois suburbs and then taking them to south Miss. as seedlings? My crazy comments are about used up for the year, but you my friend, are setting yourself up for failure. They are 2 very different climates. For example, Chicago has a long cold winter, south Mississippi has nearly no winter.
I've tried stuff like that before (long ago) and it never works. Because the USDA map says a plant grows in both locations doesn't mean one can be grown at one extreme climate of it and taken to another climate on the map. Provenance (place or source of origin) is important. - http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/provenance?s=t
I hope my planting photos up there were encouraging but all those seedlings were from Missouri and planted in Missouri.
I'm sure your intentions are good.

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Lol...Okay so maybe I am wrong at how these should be raised.

Most seed have to be stratified for 90-180 days. So using the 90 day as an example...i have kept the seed in my refrigerator for 90 days. This puts us around the end of January. after 90 days, the seed begin to germinate. I then plant those in tree bands and place under T8 lighting for a couple of months. This puts us to around the beginning of April. I can safely acclimate those to the UV rays in zone 5. Then plan to bring those to Ms in May. So they really would be grown in a controlled environment until then.

Will this not work? :(

Thank you,
Crazy lady

Oh, and my seeds are supposed to be from Southern sources.

This message was edited Oct 21, 2014 11:52 AM

This message was edited Oct 21, 2014 11:58 AM

Cleveland,GA/Atlanta, GA(Zone 7b)

I have volunteered seed and see I have others you are wanting including Yellow Poplar and Redbud but strongly agree with shortleaf as to cultivation advice. Small changes in provenance can cause big changes in same species (species variation). My seed is coming from the Appalachian foothills at 1,600 ft elevation and in zone 7a. I believe you will be planting in zone 8a and at an elevation that is only a few hundred feet. I'd say your best bet is to plant seed in situ and let nature take it's course.

I summer greenhouse orchids and house plants outside and end up with oaks and redbuds sprouting in many pots come winter (thank you squirrels). Knowing full well how easy it is to sprout these plants I also know there is a lot more to acclimating them to a permanent location. They really don't like to be moved. I have had some luck with redbuds that are no more than a foot.

suburban K.C., MO(Zone 6a)

Teehee..not calling you crazy, not what I meant. You can certainly try what you want.

Cleveland,GA/Atlanta, GA(Zone 7b)

There's a great kid's song, "Boom, Boom, Ain't It Great To Be Crazy". I think excited, enthused or even zealous about the new property is apropos. I well recall when we got our property in the mountains twenty five years ago. We still love our place, and have never stopped working on it, but there comes a time when the bloom is off the rose. The deer eat almost everything planted, the poachers do what poachers do best and then the roof leaks. A squirrel has a litter on your pillow, a colony of paper wasps set up housekeeping in the vestibule, a cat finds its way into your basement to birth a litter and a possum follows to eat the kittens. There are the honeybees, all thirty or sixty thousand that swarmed down the chimney and die. Strange smell...something vaguely like wheat.

A new place and new space is an adventure. Those fortunate to be able to have the opportunity usually have a lot of stumbling to do. So cute story (I think)....

When we first got our place there was a nearby business called "Farm Bureau". I won't explain all the details but after dropping by the office and explaining to the person at the desk that I was there to buy chickens and ducks she looked quite puzzled. She said she and her husband had chickens, but no ducks. I asked to see the livestock without realizing I was in an insurance company office and she was the receptionist. It's great to be crazy!

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

LOL shortleaf, no biggie. Just play'n with you. I really don't know how I am going to do this otherwise. maybe I will do a few seeds and document the process...

We are going to MS for Christmas but unsure how to handle the seeds at that time of the year.

OH MAY... that was funny!!! hahahah I looked at my husband and said, "Did you know what Farm Bureau was?"...he shook his head no. I guess it is a Southern thing...too funny!


Grants Pass, OR(Zone 8a)

If you are going to MS for Christmas you might try looking for some of the oaks and other trees you want and do some acorn/seed gathering. I have had just as good success with wild acorns as I have had with purchased ones.I realize that identification may be more trouble than you want to deal with...Just a thought.

Anne Arundel,, MD(Zone 7b)

My vote, FWIW....
Go for Xmas with supplies prepared to pot up local seeds, acorns, etc that you find in MS. Pot them, sink the pots in ground, let nature go. Or set off a nursery plot down there, and load it with seeds, etc.

I just think starting them in Illinois and transporting them has too many ifs and too much hassle to make up for any earlier start.

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Thank you for all of your replies!

What if I take the seeds with me and put them in pots once I get there. Then nature can do its thing?

If that is okay...what kind of soil mixture do I use in the containers? Can I use the same soil for all of the different trees?

suburban K.C., MO(Zone 6a)

Wow, look at you, geek! And the seeds are even supposed to be from a southern source?
I think that's a much better plan even if you can't be down there. I'd expect some not to make it due to dry spells or squirrels but you might at least get half to make it. I'd try to make sure the pots can't fall over and dump out.

I'm of the opinion that artificial lighting isn't nearly adequate for plants. I once saw somewhere that a plant 6 inches from a plant bulb is only getting roughly half of the light it would get from the sun. I have 3 shoplites and 4 electric lanterns with plant bulbs in them for houseplants and marginals that can't be left outside during the winter. I don't think deciduous trees can be grown successfully in fake lighting then put in a different climate in the sun. Here's my biggest setup and I'm out of room, those are houseplants, tropicals and marginals. -
Will

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Cleveland,GA/Atlanta, GA(Zone 7b)

I can attest that the seeds originate from a Southern source as I am the source in the southerly direction. I had previously volunteered seed from Maypop. We are on two acres of hardwood in the city of Atlanta but those would be harder to collect because the lawn service folks blow most of them off the drive and much of the rest gets mulched in the lawn. My concern is that Maypop's zone is two up and the altitude much different than southern MS. But hey...a box of acorns for the price of postage and the receiver does not even have to collect them. It's the beauty of Dave's Garden and I get to pay it forward.

Sally's advice is excellent. I'd make it THE plan. Use whatever soil is native to the site and amend with locally purchased garden topsoil.

I have a limited supply of native persimmon seed (Diospyros virginiana). They grow in your area and mine and are easy to cultivate with in situ stratification. You could put the seed out at the same time as the acorns.

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Cleveland,GA/Atlanta, GA(Zone 7b)

By the way, I've not delved into the whole list, nor do I know all the species, but I can't imagine the circumstance that would make me intentionally plant a yellow poplar. They are the biggest trash tree ever and we've got plenty of those. Sorry, I am doing a public service by not sending seed. As for maples, we pull the ones that volunteer. They are non-natives. That said about non-natives, I let a few mulberries go here and there to support our scant silk worm population since Georgia has a historical relationship, albeit failed, with silk worm farming. Running across a ginormous silk worm in the garden is always good dinner conversation among us garden nerds.

suburban K.C., MO(Zone 6a)

Laurel, you are generous to collect and ship that seed, you are indeed paying it forward. Yeah, that is southern alright. That's not real close to MS. but it's better than Illinois I'm pretty sure.

Tulip Poplars (Yellow Poplar) I bet are quite common around GA. and kind of monotonous to look at. Just curious, what is it that you don't like about it, Maypop? It is one of my favorite deciduous trees. It is one of the tallest if not the tallest deciduous trees in North America. Mature ones are just ginormous and the mature features of the tree are just awesome. On some mature ones the first branches don't start up a straight trunk for 50 feet or so. This site says the tallest deciduous tree in the U.S. but I'm pretty sure it's North America. - http://www.botanical-journeys-plant-guides.com/liriodendron-tulipifera.html

Here's some more good reading. - http://exploro-orbis-terrarum.smugmug.com/Great-Smoky-Mountains/Boogerman-Sag-Branch-Poplar/10106851_Grdm4t/694198577_S552qmX#!i=694198577&k=S552qmX

Which Maple is non-native? I know there are some but I didn't think they're widespread.

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Quote from MaypopLaurel :
I can attest that the seeds originate from a Southern source as I am the source in the southerly direction. I had previously volunteered seed from Maypop. We are on two acres of hardwood in the city of Atlanta but those would be harder to collect because the lawn service folks blow most of them off the drive and much of the rest gets mulched in the lawn. My concern is that Maypop's zone is two up and the altitude much different than southern MS. But hey...a box of acorns for the price of postage and the receiver does not even have to collect them. It's the beauty of Dave's Garden and I get to pay it forward.

Sally's advice is excellent. I'd make it THE plan. Use whatever soil is native to the site and amend with locally purchased garden topsoil.

I have a limited supply of native persimmon seed (Diospyros virginiana). They grow in your area and mine and are easy to cultivate with in situ stratification. You could put the seed out at the same time as the acorns.
Maypop, you are so sweet for sharing! let me how much to send you. got it on the soil! ohhh, I would love some persimmon seeds!!! Thank you so much

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Maypop, in regards to the yellow poplar...I was just trying to plant trees that are going to attract wildlife. I don't know a whole lot about this tree.

I think I picked it because of the butterflies. Lol

This message was edited Oct 24, 2014 3:48 PM

Cleveland,GA/Atlanta, GA(Zone 7b)

Time crunch here. I'll get to some of the questions and answers later. Hope the original experts will help identify what I'm showing or correct me if I'm wrong. Meanwhile, we got to Maypop (did I already say it's our cottage outside of Cleveland, GA?) late this afternoon and after stocking the fridge and picking the garden I managed to pick up a few nuts. See pics 1-4. That took about fifteen minutes. I'll hike the property tomorrow and check the bounty. I'm also hoping there are some late chanterelles. There's a young red bud loaded with small seed pods but I need a ladder and a poll.

If anything is available at the Atlanta house it will have to wait 'til next week. I live in a tree house, tucked in the woods (5) in the middle of the city. Meanwhile, I'll look for nuts with variation and try to sort them. I can photo some of the trees but most are too dense to actually tell which ones they originate from. Hoping there is a nut expert here to help.

This message was edited Oct 24, 2014 6:26 PM

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Cleveland,GA/Atlanta, GA(Zone 7b)

It was a beautiful day for nut hunting and picture taking. I wanted to share photos of a walk in the woods and the nuts and acorns now collected (#1-#4). The trees will not reach full color for several more weeks.With help from SO, I located a variety of acorns though not absolutely positive of IDs. Amazing how many were already sprouting. It doesn't seem stratification is necessary at all unless holding them at cold temps to prevent sprouting is a good thing (?). Some species could do well in southern MS, others might not tolerate that range http://www.fs.fed.us/foresthealth/technology/pdfs/fieldguide.pdf.

I was able to reach about fifty seed pods from an Eastern redbud (each has three or four seeds) and think I collected three varieties of hickory. Two are similarly sized but different colors. Since you expressed interest in Yellow Poplar I was able to locate several intact seed heads. Dogwood berries have gone to the birds here but I gathered a few and have more in Atlanta. Along with redbud, you will have a start for understory though redbud is iffy in extreme southern MS.

Shortleaf, I've got multiple issues with Yellow Poplar starting with a growth habit that outpaces other hardwoods. Slower growing oaks and hickories can't compete in the same habitat. It volunteers, along with other trash trees and scrub, wherever land has been cleared. All along our roadsides, and around the pond and dam, clearing Yellow Poplar is a never ending chore. Try spending a day on a steep hillside wielding a chainsaw and clippers or wallowing around in waders. Unless we drill and inject Round Up into the stumps they continue to sprout from the base for years. They volunteer among the cleared area that supports my fruit and berries. Yellow Poplar isn't a poplar at all, rather a soft porous hardwood of little value. Unlike valuable oak and hickory, it's a utility grade wood used for cheap furniture frames and pallets. It's so porous that it burns fast when used for heating making it inferior for fireplaces and woodstoves. We use it in our fire pit because it's not even worth curing for heating. We have enormous ones overhanging our house in Atlanta (photo #5 is outside the deck to my bedroom which is over 30' up there). So yes, the limbs start at around forty feet. The porous limbs have lampooned our roof and decks. When foresting land for investment or conservation there is a value added quality to other hardwood that Yellow Poplar does not have. Here in the deep South it's often mispronounced "Yellow Popular". I think not.

It occurred to me that a reasonably priced source for six foot trees is the Big Box stores. They usually stock trees for the region in spring and fall. I see hardwoods, redbud and dogwood along with fruit trees. Since they are guaranteed for one year you could always take them back if they failed. The trees are usually priced at about twenty five dollars each and they half price them after awhile. If you are going to MS in December you might find some good head starts there. Since the zone is relatively mild, and the trees guaranteed, I'd not worry about the planting time.

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rhinelander, WI(Zone 4a)

good suggestions -- look for 2-2 transplants from southern nurseries
-- live oaks may be good too ? bald cypress and bur oak may be ok too.
pick up the trees when you are down south near southern mississippi :)
mail order is not always best unless you are planting right away. Fall
planting and spring are good down south (sometimes fall planting up
north is not recommended for bare root transplants but ok if it is a paper
pot with good roots)

This message was edited Oct 26, 2014 3:59 AM

suburban K.C., MO(Zone 6a)

The Home Depot here has most plants in the lawn and garden at 75% off. It's all Home Depots I suspect but not all of them have much left I'd guess. At the one here there is only a few Crabapple trees left for that, everything else like the fruiting trees are all gone.

Oh, I'd have to have Live Oaks if I lived there. There's no problem distinguishing live oak acorns, they are long and skinny. Btw, Maypop, my guess on your bowl of acorns up there would be Red Oak or White Oak (if the leaves are pointy - Red Oak, if the leaves are rounded - White Oak).

That first photo looks like Pignuts to me.
Will - not a horticulturist

Anne Arundel,, MD(Zone 7b)

Took a nice walk today in a park and spent much time contemplating the possible value of the Liriodendron along the way...

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Quote from MaypopLaurel :
Time crunch here. I'll get to some of the questions and answers later. Hope the original experts will help identify what I'm showing or correct me if I'm wrong. Meanwhile, we got to Maypop (did I already say it's our cottage outside of Cleveland, GA?) late this afternoon and after stocking the fridge and picking the garden I managed to pick up a few nuts. See pics 1-4. That took about fifteen minutes. I'll hike the property tomorrow and check the bounty. I'm also hoping there are some late chanterelles. There's a young red bud loaded with small seed pods but I need a ladder and a poll.

If anything is available at the Atlanta house it will have to wait 'til next week. I live in a tree house, tucked in the woods (5) in the middle of the city. Meanwhile, I'll look for nuts with variation and try to sort them. I can photo some of the trees but most are too dense to actually tell which ones they originate from. Hoping there is a nut expert here to help.

This message was edited Oct 24, 2014 6:26 PM


I am so sorry for the delay. It never sent me notification of a response. UGH!!!

I don't think you mentioned Maypop. Very nice!

Sounds great!

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Quote from MaypopLaurel :
It was a beautiful day for nut hunting and picture taking. I wanted to share photos of a walk in the woods and the nuts and acorns now collected (#1-#4). The trees will not reach full color for several more weeks.With help from SO, I located a variety of acorns though not absolutely positive of IDs. Amazing how many were already sprouting. It doesn't seem stratification is necessary at all unless holding them at cold temps to prevent sprouting is a good thing (?). Some species could do well in southern MS, others might not tolerate that range http://www.fs.fed.us/foresthealth/technology/pdfs/fieldguide.pdf.

I was able to reach about fifty seed pods from an Eastern redbud (each has three or four seeds) and think I collected three varieties of hickory. Two are similarly sized but different colors. Since you expressed interest in Yellow Poplar I was able to locate several intact seed heads. Dogwood berries have gone to the birds here but I gathered a few and have more in Atlanta. Along with redbud, you will have a start for understory though redbud is iffy in extreme southern MS.

Shortleaf, I've got multiple issues with Yellow Poplar starting with a growth habit that outpaces other hardwoods. Slower growing oaks and hickories can't compete in the same habitat. It volunteers, along with other trash trees and scrub, wherever land has been cleared. All along our roadsides, and around the pond and dam, clearing Yellow Poplar is a never ending chore. Try spending a day on a steep hillside wielding a chainsaw and clippers or wallowing around in waders. Unless we drill and inject Round Up into the stumps they continue to sprout from the base for years. They volunteer among the cleared area that supports my fruit and berries. Yellow Poplar isn't a poplar at all, rather a soft porous hardwood of little value. Unlike valuable oak and hickory, it's a utility grade wood used for cheap furniture frames and pallets. It's so porous that it burns fast when used for heating making it inferior for fireplaces and woodstoves. We use it in our fire pit because it's not even worth curing for heating. We have enormous ones overhanging our house in Atlanta (photo #5 is outside the deck to my bedroom which is over 30' up there). So yes, the limbs start at around forty feet. The porous limbs have lampooned our roof and decks. When foresting land for investment or conservation there is a value added quality to other hardwood that Yellow Poplar does not have. Here in the deep South it's often mispronounced "Yellow Popular". I think not.

It occurred to me that a reasonably priced source for six foot trees is the Big Box stores. They usually stock trees for the region in spring and fall. I see hardwoods, redbud and dogwood along with fruit trees. Since they are guaranteed for one year you could always take them back if they failed. The trees are usually priced at about twenty five dollars each and they half price them after awhile. If you are going to MS in December you might find some good head starts there. Since the zone is relatively mild, and the trees guaranteed, I'd not worry about the planting time.



Oh wow, absolutely beautiful!! I so jealous.

Awesome! You were a little busy there picking those nuts. Thank you! I love the redbuds! I really hope that they will do well.

I will definitely check out the big box stores. Thank you again!!!!!

Andrea

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Quote from jimwil22 :
good suggestions -- look for 2-2 transplants from southern nurseries
-- live oaks may be good too ? bald cypress and bur oak may be ok too.
pick up the trees when you are down south near southern mississippi :)
mail order is not always best unless you are planting right away. Fall
planting and spring are good down south (sometimes fall planting up
north is not recommended for bare root transplants but ok if it is a paper
pot with good roots) [/quote]

This message was edited Oct 26, 2014 3:59 AM


I agree. Unfortunately, most of the bare root nurseries are sold out. :( A few things left, but not what I was looking for. In the South, fall planting is recommended. Mid Dec.

This message was edited Nov 11, 2014 9:30 AM

Cleveland,GA/Atlanta, GA(Zone 7b)

14 1/2 pounds of nuts, acorns and seeds were stuffed into the large size USPS box and shipped today. I never had time to take more photos. The trees that I originally said were shagbark are mostly shellbark. Maybe you can divide and photo the seeds when they arrive.

Seedlings should be started in a protected space. Deer and squirrels are creative when it comes to getting at them. We have small groups of wild turkeys but not enough to dent the acorn population.

I had fun collecting nuts while appreciating the privilege of this 17 acre native space. There's a lot to take in. For the most part, aside from my small kitchen vegetable garden, we feel pretty strongly about our custodial role here.

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Thank you again Maypop,

Ah, okay. Shellbark. Those are the ones with the shells around them?

I got all of the sprouting white oaks planted.

I really can't wait to get started on my property. Thank you again!!!

This message was edited Nov 11, 2014 9:27 AM

Island Lake, IL(Zone 5b)

Pictures. I tried to divide...

Thumbnail by reefgeek Thumbnail by reefgeek Thumbnail by reefgeek Thumbnail by reefgeek Thumbnail by reefgeek

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