Greetings, orchid friends!
I've kept a number of phals going for several years, but with most of them, eventually the network of roots turns brown, shrivels, etc. New roots grow, but I don't get the extensive pot-girdling fat green root systems that they had when they arrived. New leaves grow, I get new flower spikes, and occasionally even two at a time. But eventually - those roots go. I repot in bark when the old medium starts to look mealy, or the plants have grown right out of the pots and are growing lots of new aerial roots. I don't use sphagnum of any kind, because root rot seems to happen faster when I do that. I don't water every week in the summer; more like 10-14 days, and sometimes longer, when the humidity is high. I do water weekly in the winter, when relative humidity is very low. I've followed the weekly-weakly adage in general. The tops of my plants themselves look pretty good, and they do bloom. But boy - I think maybe they'd do better with fabulous wrap-around roots.
What is it that happens to the old roots, when they turn pale brown inside the pot and sort of empty out? Is that a result of a plant discarding that root, or did I actually kill it off? Do phals discard roots, like they do with leaves when they're growing new ones and don't need the old ones?
I think maybe I can't supply the perfectly humidified environment phals love, and perhaps I will have to be content with keeping each one as long as it'll last, which seems to be three or four years and two or three bloom cycles; though maybe some of these will last longer, who knows! Anyway. The better I can understand what exactly is happening, the better orchid mom I will be.
I'd send a picture, but a couple of weeks ago I trimmed everybody up that needed it, and re-potted, so there's nothing much to show.
Thanks for any and all input. Always eager to learn!
Roots turn brown and shrivel. What's happening?
hi. you can mount phals on a log or wood so you dont bury there roots at all because yes the get root rot quickly. Phals always have air roots and no matter what you do to keep them in a pot they'll keep growing out, let them. Orchids can die of lack of water also, there roots will be dry and papery which sounds like your discribing. You do need to water weekly in summer ,every 2nd day if mounted and roots are exposed to quick drying out. Less in winter if potted as the bark will dry slower. Some roots do die and with each repot you just trim those off but alot of new roots should be replacing those, nice fat white ones with a green growing tip on them.
Thanks Bree. Possibly some of my roots have dried out, probably due to an effort not to over-water. Unless they were too wet for some period, "took sick," and faded to dryness after. That's what I'm trying to diagnose.
Mounting any house-restricted orchid in Minnesota is a sure ticket to nearly immediate death. We're talkin' *dry* here, from September to May. Like down to 25-30% (relative to 68F), with an effort, in December through April. Success will have to depend entirely on figuring out what works in a pot. I'm seeing that there are some variables - how fast the medium breaks down, or how slowly, and how big a plant one is already starting with, so rate of moisture uptake. I guess it'll be a case of learning to read with these, just like with any other plant.
Next time I find any roots like what I have questions about - and they're in the pot, not aerial - I'll get a picture to post!
J
You could get a humidifier....they make reptile/terrarium foggers that you could point at your orchids, possibly...or even just a room humidifier that cuts the dryness when you have the heat blasting...
I certainly would consider have a good humidifier in the room with your orchids. All tropical plants, or at least the vast majority of them, thrive on humidity. After all, they are native to humid, tropical climates. Growing them inside, particularly where central AC/heat is used, just dries the air out even more. You can also simply mist your orchids daily. That would help as well. Just be sure you have some air movement so that the leaves/roots can dry out each day.
That being said, orchids are always going through root growth and root death. That's just normal. I re-pot most of my orchids yearly, and I always find brown, dry, brittle roots that I need to trim. Some of my orchids lose ALL THEIR ROOTS during dormancy. Some lose ALL THEIR LEAVES during dormancy. Now that's a scary sight!
Ken
I put an inexpensive humidifier--the kind you get for croupy kids--next to the plant shelf, and all the plants perked up right away. Between the unremitting Arizona dryness and the furnace running in the winter, house humidity would otherwise be in the 20% range. I love the look of the mounted orchids with their roots in the air, but I think they would just dry up and die here. Phal is in an aircore pot inside a larger ceramic pot, it bloomed this year, is putting out new leaves and roots now, and generally looks happy. I have it in phal orchid planting mix from repotme, it gets spray soaked in the sink every two weeks with a splash of water in between if it looks droopy. I remain amazed that it has survived, let alone bloomed, now I'm thinking of getting another.....then maybe start building a greenhouse. Oh-oh, maybe they really are parasites!
I think you know what you are doing, having realized that lack of humidity can be as bad as lack or water, lack of light, or lack of air movement.
You can start with a very small GH, something that comes as an easy-to-put-together kit. You would be amazed how many orchids (or other tropical plants) you can put in one when you add several shelves.
If you are willing to mist/spray your mounted orchids, there is absolutely no reason you have to shun them. It is very interesting to see orchids growing as they do in nature.
Ken
I agree with Ken. I do live in a humid zone (10a) but we have our times (like right now) where it's dry and cool...it's not always a steamy jungle. I don't mind the extra misting...it makes me feel like I'm doing something with my collection (instead of just knowing it's there)...I love grooming and fussing over all my plants, so misting the orchids is a pleasure, even if I have to do it several times a day. (They are all mounted on a driftwood wall, roots naked as a jaybird). I use a half gallon pump sprayer; it's small and easy to deal with and has a nice little mist setting. I usually stand there with my morning coffee and do it. It's nice :) and boy do they love growing with naked roots. It's been the fastest method of rehabbing sickly 'chids I've discovered so far!
Yeah, don't bother with using those trigger-sprayers. Not only will they wear on your fingers, they are about as cheaply made as anything you'll buy. Get a small, pump-up sprayer/mister. I use a 1.5 L and use one in each GH and one on the porch routinely through the fall and winter months.
Ken
Oh so true about the trigger sprayers!!! Cramped hands after 10 pulls!!!
That's what ended my 42 year dental carrier, cramping when holding dental instruments. No trigger sprayers for me. This is what I use and always keep a half dozen on hand.
Ken
I hear you on that, I have carpal tunnel. I have multiple sprayers too....some are dedicated to my vinegar herbicide mixture, some for orchid fertilizer, some for compost tea....so I don't mix them up! Wouldn't want to spray vinegar on my orchids! I learned the hard way. Sigh
I've been so swamped for a few weeks that there hasn't been time to check in and respond to all of you, so here's a giant overall THANKS to all of you who replied.
Apparently you mostly consider that not enough moisture for those roots, rather than too much, is the issue. I'll keep an eye on them all, and possibly kill a few more with kindness rather than benign neglect, as I lurch forth toward greater understanding of what works under my given conditions.
Putting a humidifier in the room is not an option in a climate where outdoor temperatures are just about perpetually below 20F from now until March. The result of that procedure is a huge buildup of condensation in all windows, especially north-facing ones: condensation that never dries out, all winter. The follow-on consequence is MOLD. Lots and lots of black mold, and further damage to the already not-so-great seals of my old windows. I put plastic over all these windows, and it certainly helps, but there are some big sliding glass doors that I can't do. I run a little humidifier in the bedroom when it's really bad or someone is sick and needs the relief. But otherwise: nope.
Still. Five years of survival for most of these plants: I can't be going too far wrong. I'll just have to refine the procedures!
Thanks again,
J
You can use a pebble-tray under your tropical plants to raise the humidity just around the plants. In my greenhouses, though I have plenty of humidity here in Mississippi, I lined all my shelves with compressed coconut fiber matting. The plants sit on that matting. That coconut fiber retains some moisture, slowly allowing it to evaporate around my tropical plants. You may not have the growing conditions for this but if you do, coconut fiber does a good job.
I love coconut fiber soooo much. What a great suggestion!
Wow, sounds like challenging conditions! I have an orchid in a plastic basket in a plastic orchid pot, all inside a larger ceramic pot, which has a little gravel and about a 1/4 inch or less of water at the bottom. I take the inner pots to the sink and water well about every two weeks in the winter, then give it time to drain well before returning it to the ceramic pot, sometimes give it just a little drink if it looks droopy. This seems to keep some humidity around the roots but still lets air circulate. So far, it's been a lucky balance between rot and desiccation, just added the humidfier recently.
There are lots of Minnesotans in Arizona, I'm starting to see why! (And I never met ANYBODY from North Dakota until I lived in the low desert.) I've never been to the South at all, sounds like orchids are a lot easier in Mississippi and Florida. Enjoy!
You cannot compare Mississippi to Florida. We get very cold here, really, really cold. I have already seen 6 mornings in the 20's and its not even winter yet. S. Florida is sub-tropical, and it is rare they ever see 32 F! Our entire region appears to be cooling. We had a terribly long, cold winter last year. I was almost a month late getting my plants out and starting my tropical plant shipments. It altered all my plumeria blooming and resulted in my garlic being under-size. Garlic is my "cash" crop, so losing even 20% size was meaningful.
Wow, I love the coco-mat idea! And I think I can still get some somewhere, maybe. I just have to find trays to line.
I think I have some of those mesh pots that fit inside a more solid pot, out in the plant stuff cupboard. I got them at Repotme.com. That didn't work so great for me, when I used a "premium" orchid mix that included sphagnum peat moss. The peat moss was just too retentive, and difficult to judge - for me, at least. I love the idea of the air movement, but it seemed like the plants that did best were in solid pots, with bark and other large chips of stuff. Hydroton, charcoal, big perlite. Plus, I think the roots really like getting some light, so I've given up using a lot of my ceramic pots until it's time for table display, or there's a really tippy pot. Still - I'd totally go back to that if it weren't kind of expensive to acquire all the pots, given the number of orchids I have.
But using a big enough pot to put some aquarium glass or the like in the bottom - maybe I could do that for a couple of the big guys. (Too many plants and not enough room to do it for all.)
Good ideas! Thanks again!
Joan, how many orchids do you have to deal with?
I only use long-fibered sphagnum moss for mounting plants or occasionally I will top off my orchid bark mix with sphagnum just to dress up the plant when I bring it inside during blooming. I also use moist sphagnum when I bag the roots of a plant to ship. It is great for that.
I have pretty much gone to mesh-pots for all my orchids. Every now and then I might put a Phal. in a clay pot, or a really large, really to-heavy plant in an 8-10" clay pot, but that's about it. I want my orchids' roots to get maximum air-flow and of coarse, having all those openings, some light gets to them as well. It also helps that orchid mix dry out fairly quickly. The down-side is that mesh-pots cost quite a bit more than solid pots and (good/bad) roots will grow out of all those holes. It makes re-potting "interesting".
Like you, when I bring my orchids in for show, I might put them in a solid, glazed pot just for esthetic purposes.
Ken
drdawg,
Exactly! The roots grow out the sides... doggone it. I just cut the pots up still more (no real harm done, right? We love lots of holes). Of course, light wasn't a problem, as long as I kept them out of the ceramic pots.
I have about 15-20 plants, and they have to share the living space of the home. They don't get their own greenhouse/sunroom. Maybe... maybe putting some of that sphagnum around the top, where the aerial roots are, but not in the pot itself, would be a good idea, and assist in micro-climate humidity control. Hmm....
I think I'll keep the solid-side pots for now though, given the dry air and my relative problems with humidity.
Thanks for all the thoughts. I've gotten a bunch of new ideas from this thread!
99.9% of commercial grower/hybridizers grow their plants in solid plastic pots. Consider yourself to be in the majority, to say the least...........LOL
Ken
So, Dr Ken, How did you end up in Mississippi growing orchids and garlic? Sounds like there might be a story there. Happy Thanksgiving!
Please read the opening page on my website. Not much of a story though.
Ken
www.tropicalplantsandmore.com