Ideas for walkway / landscape around a deck

Hi, I have been browsing for a while, but just joined and this is my first post. I am looking for ideas to landscape around the deck in the picture (ignore the cement rounds in the pic, and the little edging of white stone to the left of the steps, these are not installed, just sitting on the lawn, to give me some ideas). The challenges I am trying to solve:

1. path from driveway to steps
2. something solid to step on when you come down / start going up the steps (lawn there now)
3. path continues and goes up between the deck and fence, all the way up to the wooden gate (gate is the section furthest from the house) .
4. minimize / eliminate any remaining lawn between the deck and the fence, by creating planting areas on either side of the path.

5. there is a 6 foot gap on the far side of the deck, between the deck and the house, which is bare dirt and weeds, would like to not have to mow / weed wack that either.
6. what to do with the little area of lawn immediately to the right of the steps (steps come out 2 feet 9 in from the deck.) plantings?

I plan to do stepping stones separated by grass. Any other ideas for this space?

Thanks, Fatima


This message was edited Aug 12, 2014 10:00 PM

Fatima, your city, Morristown, is in zone 6a and has about 52 inches of rain per year:

http://www.plantmaps.com/07960

Nevertheless, you should figure out a way to get water to the garden area. Is there a faucet outside the house? Above-ground drip irrigation is best. You can cover that area with a $20 irrigation set.

Consider a dollar amount you would like to spend on the project so it doesn't get out of control. I think the pink stones would create a fine path over the grass, but if you want to create many pathways you would need more stones, preferably the same color and type. You need to first do the hardscaping, then add plants. - Nancy Groutsis

Thanks DoGooder. There is a faucet outside the house. A green thumb neighbor is assisting with plant selection, and will ask her about irrigation.

I have the budget worked out, and will do most of the work myself. Not sure what you mean by 'create many pathways'. In my mind there will be one path of stepping stones that goes from the driveway, past the steps coming off the deck, and continuing up the side of the fence to the gate.

I plan to dig and set each stone individually, rather than excavate an entire bed. The local stone place calls them 'oxford steppers' where the length is between 18 - 24 in and width is between 22 and 36 in). I plan to use mostly widths of 32 - 36 inches. I have cut cardboard templates of the dimensions and using them to estimate placement, and number of stones.

Fatima, excellent idea to create one path with oxford steppers! I was thinking along the lines of many paths with smaller stones so it's easier to navigate around the plants when it's raining. However, the larger stones are better at stopping weeds. I created two stone paths in my south garden which has prevented a lot of the weeds from growing back.

I'm glad there's a faucet available. The above ground drip irrigation conserves water and you only need to turn on the faucet and turn it off unless you have a timer for that, but in the northeast where we live the weather is unpredictable so a timer would have to be reset all the time which is why my system doesn't have one. Below-ground irrigation always gets clogged and sprinklers waste water and make it difficult to garden when they're on, and soaker hoses kink and often have uneven water at the end, so that's why I figured since you're starting new you might as well get the best now especially since they're so inexpensive. The DIG irrigation and Rain Bird are good brands, and one set is less expensive than a quality hose.

Since the area in front of your home will be a garden, I suggest designing an evergreen garden first that will look good in the winter and then fill the extra spaces with flowering shrubs and herbaceous plants. Consider whether you want privacy or a showcase garden for the neighbors to admire. If the area near the fence is mostly shade I recommend Quick Fire hydrangea which grows to 8 ft. x 8 ft. because it does well in your zone, provides light-colored flowers (white, pink) that stand out in the shade, it doesn't have to be staked because it's the paniculata type, and it blooms at least four months:

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/133907/#b

I've attached a photo of the one I got last year. The photo was taken yesterday and the flowers are turning pink for autumn. I didn't protect it during last year's polar vortex and it survived in good condition. The All Summer Beauty hydrangea next to it is a big-leaf (macrophylla) type which doesn't tolerate spring freezes well, and all the buds died so it had to grow from the ground up but it is 3 ft. high though it hasn't flowered (2nd year plant grown from 8" size).

Nancy G.

Thanks again! Unfortunately the faucet is on the other side of the house, so I'd have to run a hose each time I want to use the irrigation system. I was already planning to run the hose as needed for hand-watering ... we'll see.

That area bakes in full sun all day long, so I am not sure the Quick Fire Hydrangea will thrive there. But I do like the idea of some privacy along that fence, so will look for similar growing plant that can tolerate full sun. The shadows where I took the pic really don't even make it close to the deck area until early evening.

That's a good idea with evergreen plus flowering plants!

This message was edited Aug 13, 2014 11:46 AM

Fatima, you can have both a hose and drip system with a 2-way hose connector. My connector has five hose outlets, because I still like to have the option of using a hose or have a faucet to fill a watering can. The drip system can be attached to one of the hose outlets and you can run it around the house and keep it down with garden staples. I have the DIG system and the hose is only half an inch and black so it doesn't stand out.

Though the main line is half an inch, the actual drip line is 1/4 inch so it's a real skinny tube that doesn't detract much from the garden and the drip line can be 50 or 100 feet so you can wind it around the plants. This is your garden so the best decision is the one you make. However, I wish someone had told me about drip irrigation when I started gardening a few years ago mostly because it saves so much time. My mom has a great big garden and she used to spend 2 hours watering plants-a real chore!-but then she got a drip system and she just turns it on and off and relaxes on the balcony and enjoys looking at her bountiful garden.

Full sun is helpful because most plants prefer full sun. Evergreen conifers especially like full sun, but they do require a lot of water. The picture you posted shows a lot of shade near the fence which is why I recommended a hydrangea for that area. For the front of the yard perhaps you might want some dwarf flowering shrubs (i.e. dwarf variegated weigela, tree peonies) behind a row of tiny evergreens (i.e. thuja Tom Thumb, green gem boxwood).

Nancy G.

Safe walkway from driveway to deck.
Compacted gravel, perhaps sold as 1/4 by dust or other names. It is a blend of fines and small, angular gravel that will set up almost as hard as concrete.
Make the path 3' or more wide, generous, sweeping turn. Do not hug the deck.
Use a header board material to confine it.
Repeat for the path to the gate.

Alternate: Use very large stepping stones, set pretty close together. At least 2' diameter. Natural rock. Needs to be big enough and heavy enough to be stable. Don't waste time or money on little waste scraps from the quarry. Then plant a ground cover that will handle some traffic. Lawn is one, but I do not know what else grows in your zone. Ornamental Strawberry? (Fragaria chiloensis) does just fine in full sun, and does not mind being stepped on, especially if most of the traffic is on the stepping stones.

Against vertical surfaces (wall of house, fence, side of deck) plant something that is tall. Shrubs, vine, or even a small tree. (I did not show a tree).

Minimize lawn, unless that is really what you want. Good surface for playing. However, if you want to keep some lawn, I have left most of it.

Hide the porch. I built a planter, and faced it with the same latice as is on the porch and deck so it ties in, then planted it.

Pink, purple, blue represent areas that are something of a focal point, and flowers or colored leaf shrubs would show off nicely.
Green represents shrubs that may or may not have some color, but are mostly there to soften the hardscape.

DoGooder: Thanks again, I like the idea for the Hydrangea in the shaded area and will definitely consider the dwarf shrubs and tiny evergreens.

Diane_K: Thank you also. I like the idea of not hugging the deck with the walk way, I had not considered that, and it does make sense. I was planning to use those large steppers, no more than 12 inches apart. I also like that blue area along the path ... you'll be able to see that from the deck. The planter to soften the porch a bit is cool too, and I have enough leftover lattice to make it happen.

BTW, I came home from work today to see my helper has started clearing immediate to the right of the steps ... removed the sod between there and the driveway.

Take several walks along the area you need to place stepping stones. Count your steps.
When striding right out most people step about 3' apart. A slower stroll might be about 2'.
So try a few different ways of getting to the stairs, what feels best, then place the stepping stones in those spots. Note that people mostly step with one foot pretty closely following the other. Do not place the stepping stones in 2 lines, thinking that people will walk on the right one with their right foot and the left one with their left foot. People don't walk that way. You can add a slight zig-zag, but the safest path is a straight line with large stones. Well set so they do not wobble, and barely above the soil level so if you step half on and half off you are still stable.

A larger one as a landing at the base of the stairs, and a larger one (or a pair) near the driveway, so you can access the walkway from the house or the street.

Diana_K: Oh , I plan to make this walkway sturdy / wide enough to accommodate a snowblower.

My thought was to determine an appropriately sized stone for the base of the stairs (as a laniing), and then determine the rest of stone sizes and placement after that.

I may even build a proper landing for that area out of smaller, irregular shaped stone (sold by pallet) about an inch apart dry-laid in a properly prepared bed, and use the steppers for the path. Still planning ...!

As you can see from the picture, all the sod has been taken up. Tonight I marked where the path will go. This week I will determine the placement of steppers in the path, so I can put my order in with the stoneyard.

I put the shepards hook / baskets just to help visualize if a shrub was there.

fatima, the path looks great! I can visualize pretty plants filling the left and right side of the pathway.

Nancy G.

Looking good! Proper layout sure helps make the project come out right.

Narrow planter against fence could be right for a vine on the fence, and some smaller plants for color.

Wider planter areas are better for shrubs. Just keep it in scale. Don't plant a 6' shrub in a 3' space!

I began to lay the stepping stones. The first one I did (at base of steps) was even on the bottom, and easy to get level. The one next to it (closer to front of pic ) is uneven on the bottom, (and the depth of the stone tapers left to right) so is difficult to get the stone dust underneath adjusted accordingly so the top of the stone will be level. Any ideas on how to do that? Thanks!

Fatima, those are nice stones! I've created many garden paths but usually with small thin pavers that tend to move and be displaced. Obviously, you are doing top-quality work by using a foundation material. I researched paving on the Internet and found that the best foundation under the stones should be a material that compacts well.

I also found out that crusher run (crushed stone) compacts better than stone dust, so it is generally seen as a better foundation for a paved stone pathway. Crusher run also has better drainage and there are no footprints when walking on it. Crusher run is usually made of different sized rocks, so they pack together yet do still offer excellent drainage. Crushed stone is also very inexpensive, at least where my family gets mulch. Crushed stone foundations last longer than stone dust, so they don't have to be replaced as often so over time it could be more cost-effective to get some crusher stone now at the beginning of the project rather than renovating in a few years. Crusher stone is not as well known as stone dust and so a lot of merchants will direct you to buy stone dust. Perhaps you can combine the stone dust with crusher run? Here is a web site that has instructions on how to use crusher run to create a pathway:

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/lay-pavers-crusher-run-stone-36688.html

Nancy G.

Edit: sorry, wrong web site the first time.

This message was edited Sep 10, 2014 11:14 AM

That is beautiful stone Fatima.

I've had better success by laying down the foundation stuff too high at first and bit by bit scooping some out to get the thicker parts lower down, while squiggling it, but I don't know that that's the correct way.

Good luck.

I also do it the way 13Turtles suggests:
Put more sand/gravel or other base under the stone.
Rotate it back and forth a bit. If it settles into place, and is level that is good. If not, then stand on the stone. This will impress into the base material the deepest in the trouble areas. Scoop out a bit of the base there. There might be no impression from the stone in other areas. Put the material you scooped in these areas where the stone made no contact with the base material.
Then repeat the tamping and wiggling until it is stable, and at the right elevation.

Thanks everyone.

13Turtles and Diane K, I see what you are saying. I have been tamping the stone dust with a hand tamper before laying down the stone. Perhaps it needs to be left untamped so the stone can be worked into the dust like you describe. I have had success with lifting up stone to redistribute the dust as needed to fix wobbles.

That is good.
If you know you need more fill, then go ahead and partially fill and tamp the bottom layer, but them leave a layer on the top that is loose, and more amenable to being worked into place.

That worked well to make the foundation a little higher than needed, and finesse the stone into place.

Path is complete, I have some hostas going in along the deck, with bulbs in between, some grasses to anchor the near end of the path, and myrtle along the fence.

Congratulations Fatima.

Looking good!

By the time you have dug holes for more plants and mulched the rock will be pretty close to the same level as the existing soil and will blend right in.

Fatima, the path looks fabulous!

Nancy G.

Ditto, good job! You're also doing a good job of convincing me I might be able to do my own front walk, which currently doesn't exist. Nor do the stairs. Thank you for sharing your project. :~)

Great info here when my turn comes.

Thanks everyone, I am happy with how it is progressing.

Plants, bulbs, compost, and topsoil mixed with grass seed going in now. We started w/ 40 parts topsoil to 1 part grass seed, will see how that looks before I continue up the side of the deck with it.

fatima, it looks like you planted grass seed before or after it rained which is a good idea. The overcast sky and autumn rains will help the grass grow well. Also, the brick border plant area looks great! The high grasses will look fine at appropriate locations.

Nancy G.

Thanks DoGooder. I got the seeded soil in Friday evening, watered it, and then it rained all Sat morning (when I took the pics).

I did the remaining topsoil and seeding today.

The brick border is not installed, just there until the grass establishes. Not sure yet if I will install a permanent physical border, or just edge it.

fatima, it's a smart idea to have a border to keep the grass edge neat while it establishes. I assume you will want to cut the grass regularly. When deciding on whether to get a border consider if it's going to obstruct the cutting machine. All the grass areas around our home have some kind of border be it rocks, plastic edging, or trench. Even so the grass still finds its way across the borders and it has to be weeded every few weeks. However, if the border plants are very thick and completely shade the grass I don't think a border is necessary.

Nancy G.

I like a firm border at soil level to run the wheels on. Otherwise the edge of the lawn gets a deep track where the mower goes.

While waiting for the grass to grow …

I cataloged all my stones with their dimensions so I knew what I had ( 24 stones total). I had to determine which situations required a certain size stone. After that, I picked out a few stones that I wanted to feature or put in certain areas.(interesting color or shape) You cannot try every combination before you install, they are too heavy to keep moving around. But I tried the few that were important to me.

Then, I ran a mason string at the height I wanted the path (top of each stone) to run, and confirmed it is level with a line level. The ground slopes along the path length, and each stone has different thickness. So there is always a different amount of stone dust needed for each stone. Draw marks in the dirt a little larger than the length / width of the stone, then fill that area with stone dust just high to leave for the thickness of the stone, maybe a little higher. Check the work with a level along the way. After I laid each stone in place, I would get on it (pretend like a surfboard) with feet on opposite corners, and see if it wobbles. If one end needed more dust, I staged it next to where needed, lifted the end of the stone with crowbar in one hand, and scooped more dust underneath with the other hand.

Afterwards I had to go back and adjust a few stones.

One stone broke in half when I let it fall its length off the hand truck I used to move them. After that I always used a crowbar that has a hook on one end to raise a stone enough to get my hand under it, or to lower a stone to the ground. Always used heavy gloves, and kneepads.

Umbrella was very important to comfortable work when sunny … drag it around as needed.

I am very impressed Fatima.

You make several very important points about how to install a flagstone path, and the general concept of 'Plan the Work' is probably the most important.
The results show the care you have taken in selecting and placing exactly the right stone in the right spot, and the precision in using a string to make sure the path is level.

Great job!

Thanks Diana_K

Today I put more grass seed where the path runs along the deck. But the grass near the deck steps looks great. The other work will continue in the spring.

Been following this - you had great advice so no need for my 2 cents. Just want to say what a great job . Looks lovely.

So the lawn and plants all seem to be doing fine. I love the Blue Dune grasses that flank where the path turns. But it seems like they are too close to the lawn with nothing to offset them - too much "green".

So I am thinking about replacing the new lawn with black mulch,additional plants, and only leave grass between the stones.

Also, it is hard to see but there is about 4 inches of space between the lawn and the fence. The original plan was to plant alyssum in that gap.

For now, just enjoying how much better it looks than when I started. The daffodils came and went, the tulips are almost done, and the hostas grew VERY fast. The iris did not come up, but my helper said may take a few seasons.

I think the blue grasses are so different from the lawn grass that they do not need anything else to help them stand out.
Size
Color
Texture
Shape

I agree with Diane; the Dune grasses don't even appear to be in the same category of plants but something very different. I would hate for you to lose the cool refreshment the lawn grass gives you.

Thanks 13Turtles and Diane_k for your feedback.

For now the lawn will stay, since it is still much nicer than what was there before, and I put so much work into it!

Meanwhile, the rest of the yard (not seen in the picture) is calling out for some similar TLC, so I will turn my attention there this season. Will give it some thought and either post here or start a new thread as appropriate.

I had been following this thread and its very impressive!!! Looks very nice!!!

Belle