container tomatoes

I bet you can find a guy with a big, strong drill and drill bit that would do the job for you.

I understand that "EarthBoxes" get a lot of mileage out of having an air layer under the soil layer (plus a water reservoir under the air layer).

Just speculating, maybe a 2' x 2' x 5' container would have happier roots near the bottom of the root zone if there were some air holes, plus maybe air chambers, near the bottom of the walls of the trough?

Some air holes in the sides, opening into a small tube or tunnel kept clear of soil so air can penetrate the whole bottom of the trough easily. Maybe window screening draped over pierced 1" PVC pipe or something else strong enough to support 2 feet of wet soil. It wouldn't take a big pipe to let plenty of air diffuse in.

I'm not suggesting bottom-watering, just extra aeration for the soil. That might let you use a more water-retentive mix and soak it down thoroughly while still keeping the entire root zone well-aerated.

Pure speculation. Like an EarthBox without the internal water reservoir.

I'm using 3 rusted out metal troughs as containers...all I did was add soil, plant and water. I grew peppers in one and cukes in the other two last year. They did as well or better then the ones in the ground.

Your idea of using landscape fabric to separate the soil from the drainage material is a good one. You might be able to make the single drain work. It works for those earth boxes mentioned above.
Get a level and make sure the drain is on the low side. Put a short pipe or some sort of air vent from the the bottom of the tank to the top on the HIGH side. That should work by itself.
If you want to take it a step further, then get a piece of PVC pipe or black irrigation pipe and run it from the drain across the bottom and up the high side. Thoroughly perforate the part of the pipe laying across the bottom. That makes a french drain - most people don't realize a drain needs an outlet on the low side AND a vent on the high side. Sand or gravel would probably work better than packing peanuts, but anything that drains will work - and you only need enough of a layer to provide a path for water seep towards the drain. If you can't get your pipe well perforated, then skip it.

Rick,I see how some air circulation in the bottom of the trough might be beneficial. Instead of drilling in the sides of the tough I was thinking maybe a PVC pile with holes could be pushed straight down into the soil. The trick would be to keep the bottom of the pipe open when you pushed it down through the soil. I suppose some plug in the end of the pipe would work though.
Well klrkkr I must comment on your suggestion that I could find a 'guy' with a 'big drill' (oh I am chuckling at this) to make the holes in the trough for me. I may have been a nurse (before retirement) but I should have been an engineer (which would have matched my natural mechanical/spacial talents). I had my own farm years ago and built fence etc and did all my own work. So I could drill the holes if I wanted. Not to say I don't appreciate your suggestion because I do and I don't take any offense by it either. I just was amused. I just haven't put more drainage because at this point I didn't think I needed them. But I may be proven wrong. I do like hearing 1lisac's success though and my trough set up might work just fine. I am occupied now putting up the wire cages to keep out the critters. I will post an updated picture when that is finished.

The principle is like holding your finger over the top end of a straw to keep the water in. The moist growing soil could make an air tight barrier at the landscape fabric, which could hold the water in below the fabric. I saw this demonstrated in my Master Gardening class. They had clear-sided cases (like large "ant farms") filled with layers of various types of soil from clay to gravel. There was always a problem with pooling in the upper layer whenever two layers came together - it didn't matter which layer was more porous. For water to move in, air has to be able to move out & vice versa.

No offense taken, Helen. When I suggested drilling more holes, your replay was: "It is stout and if I decide to add more I don't know how I would do it". I assumed (in error it appears) that you either did not understand how to drill the holes or did not have a heavy enough drill and bits to do the job.

Ken

I see what you mean Ken and your evaluation is easy to understand. I did suggest I wasn't sure how to drill holes.
Thanks,
Helen

When I say my troughs are rusted out I mean they have drainage holes, but I didn't put them there they rusted thru. But, like Helen, if I wanted holes in the troughs I have the tools and ability (even though I'm a "girl") to do it myself. I live on 8 acres and would much rather fix barbed wire fence then clean.

Ken, I hate to say this but Helen and I may give you a hard time for a while, but just a little while. : ). Lol

Now, now, I am a just a simple (southern) country boy and I am often confused with "fancy" language. Please do read the update from Helen through. She offered me an out.

Actually at my ripe old age, I am confused about a lot of things. LOL

Ken

I like the idea of a vent pope like a chimney. But then, I'm obsessed with aeration.

>> The moist growing soil could make an air tight barrier

You are right, and I've probably had problems like that in the past, but the thought horrifies me. Now I like such coarse mixes that they don't hold very much water, and maybe not enough nutrients. But, by all that is anaerobic or hypoxic, they have LOTS of air at all times.

I used to kill whole trays worth of seeds with overly fine, overly water-retaining mixes (and over-watering). Now I go as far as I possibly can in the other direction.

I don't like the way Perlite looks, or the way it holds NO water except on the very surface. And it's pricey. And the coarsest kind I found wasn't very coarse. Give me cheap pine bark that I can screen and chop up myself!

Maybe I shouldn't push it so hard for large containers until I get more hands-on experience.

Corey, you scrape pine bark? Off living trees, or do you have to wait 'til they're dead?

Arrgh! No. Don't get the Pine trees mad at me, they TOWER over my one-story manufactured home.

No, I buy bags and then screen it. I COULD re-grind the bigger bits, but instead I use those as top-dress-mulch while I use the small stuff as soil amendment.

I used to buy pine bark mulch from Home depot, but that stunk. Literally. The bags get wet and then the bark ferments and builds up nasty fermentation products like organic acids and alcohols.

Also, HD mulch is logyard trash: dirt, gravel, wood, who-knows-what-all. Yucck. Also, it was all sizes from lots of powder up to 3" hunks.

Lowes "Pine Bark Nuggets" are infinitely cleaner and drier. All bark, no trash, much less powder, and no huge hunks. And the price difference was only around $3.75 vs. $4.25.

One guy tells me that "orchid bark" is heat-treated to kill weeds and pathogens, but I'll stick with $4.25 for 2 cubic feet ... 28 cents per gallon

Ah, that makes more sense. I sure don't want to make my trees mad at me either.
Thanks for the tips on HD v. L's. how did you figure/find this out? I ask because we have a local home store I prefer to support, and they're generally very good.
Ta!

Rick, I am fond of Lowe's 'soil conditioner' that is basically fine ground bark, probably pine. I use it for mulch in the garden and mix it with perlite for potting stuff. I don't like using peat moss. I got some 'top soil' at Lowe's and the only thing different from the soil conditioner was maybe a little sand mixed in.
Turtles, the way to check whats in a bag is to open, discretely, a corner and check it out. Or look for a broken bag in the pile to get a gander at whats inside.

Ken, I did read Helen's post and I'm just teasing you...I said I could do it but if somebody else offered to I wouldn't stop them

Lol

Hey, even as handy (as I think) I am, if someone offered to do the grunt-work for me, I would not hesitate to take him/her up on their offer. At my age, it literally takes me three times longer to do something than it did two decades ago.

Ken

I didn't realize you had reached geezer status lol. I am without full use of my legs and require a helper for many things. 10 years ago I had four golden reterivers supervising every thing I did.

I am not sure how old/disabled one must be to reach that status, but some days, with my bad back, I certainly feel like I am there.

Ken I wouldn't wish my leg problems on the nasty doog down the road a pit bull without manners. I surely wouldn't wish for a full time back problem. I remember six months worth of back problems.

Us Mississipans must stick together ( Clarksdale 1942)

After the second L5-S1 disc rupture in 1990, I had to have surgery. I was a family dentist and could not stand and could hardly walk. I couldn't take Rx pain meds because of my work. Surgery was all that was left to me. In fact, when the neurosurgeon saw the MRI results, he did not even want me to go back home. He wanted to admit me then and there. I explained that I needed to have a week to "clear" my appointment schedule, and his statement was: "If you can endure the pain that long, and I don't think you can, a week won't do any more damage". I had surgery ten days later.

I am quite sure I have re-ruptured what was left of the disc (the symptoms are exactly the same as before, but I am not dragging my leg as before) but don't want the crippling affect that another surgery will produce. So, I just live with the pain and sciatica. You know how it is. 1943 for me.

>> >> HD v. L's. how did you figure/find this out?

I started buying the cheapest mulch I could find: Home Depot logyard trash. If used for starting seeds, I think that "free" would be too expensive. Maybe my local HD has worse mulch suppliers than others, but YEESH. Now I wouldn't even use it for a cheap top layer for a walkway, because I wouldn't trust it to be weed-seed-free.

Then I started trying a bunch of other bark products from other sources. I never waste any, because if it is too fine, I can always mix it into raised beds to lighten the clay. If it's too coarse, I can use it as weed-block-mulch.

I found a classy product around $7-8 for 2 cubic feet. Clean, dry pine bark SHREDS. But that nursery went out of business.

Lowes "Fine Pine Bark Nuggets" was the second best. Very clean and dry. Only $4.20 or so per 2 cubic feet.

Thanks RC. Now I can compare to Jerry's.

By the way, I have TWICE (so far) achieved underwatering on my tomato seedlings! Lol. Not enough to weaken them I hope.

>> I have TWICE (so far) achieved underwatering

I'm envious. I don't think that brief wilting slows plants down much. Certainly not as much as drowning the deepest root tips!

And moderate underwatering ought to encourage roots to grow deeper and spread wider, making the plant more resistant to uneven watering.