I just purchased my very first peony and had the perfect spot for it in part sun. Then started doing some research on it and saw a post saying that peonies like full sun. I am in central NC, so the sun can be harsh here in summer. Do peonies really like full sun? Do different varieties have different preferences? The tag says part sun, but I stopped trusting tags long ago in my gardening "career". Thanks in advance for the clarification.
By the way, I picked up Buckeye Belle, already in bloom. Love, love it! Got it for $35. Is that a reasonable price, do you think? I know I have seen some for more, some for less. Thanks!
Is it true?
I find my peonies do better in full sun. I have some in shade that I will be moving b/c they are not blooming as well as when the shade was less (from encroaching mature tree cover). I also found that some will tolerate some shade well. Coral Charm does really well with shade from a high canopy of mature trees but I think none do well in "deep" shade. Also, some do better in the southern states as opposed to the northern states. Having moved from Michigan almost 20 years ago I find them much more robust here in KY but I think it has more to do with the soil being heavier here. I do amend my clay soil heavily with compost. Most are tolerant of being moved (contrary to much printed about that). Just do it in the fall and keep the eyes close to the surface, especially b/c of short, warm winters. I think that is a fair price for a nice plant. I would put it in as much sun as possible though. I also water the beds the shade ones are in now and they don't really like that....the ones I have in full sun rarely get watered and fair much better. I find they kind of vary between each different cultivar too. kim
Thanks so very much! That clears it up. Looks like you are in a comparable zone as well, so your info should hold true for me, too. I will find a spot in full sun for my new treasure.
I wish I had looked her up before responding to you. Buckeye Belle is GORGEOUS. The last peonies I bought were a series of red ones (4) that I planted in a strip by a Blue Atlas Cedar. They are some of my favorites. I will say you should probably should water this year during the dry part of the summer and fall since she is big. I've always bought the bare roots and planted in the fall. Just don't water the leaves. Once established though, I rarely water them unless it is really bad. I may need to make room for another red......
Yes, and the pics don't do her justice, either. I would have never bought her from the pics, she is a much, much deeper black red than what I have seen (mostly) on the internet. Almost a red sienna color. There are a few pics that are true to her color, but most show her much more bright red than mine.
Thanks for the tip. I will water her as described.
An aside to the robust plant planting darker colored ones in shade/part shade will prolong the bloom. In full direct sun the darker colored ones that I have only have blooms for one day after temps reach 80+. Over 90 they may hold their blooms for less than a day.
Carisa, I never find the summer sun to be a problem because all of our peonies are finished blooming early to mid-June at the latest. During that period I always feel they are "enriching" themselves and have few requirements beside a little food and water. I moved several plants that never bloomed from an area that got morning sun to an area that gets more sun, and they started blooming.
Don't feel bad about how much a plant costs. If it makes you happy, it was probably worth it. I have paid from very small amounts for little twigs with one eye to a whole lot more for a plant in a pot. The bowl of beauty for $25 about 5 years ago has never done well. As soon as it is done blooming, it will have a new home. It was originally planted by a gardener, but probably too deep.
The only peonies in shade that have done well here are the doubles. There is not so much shade as the trees are only just flowering now, and the peonies with little exception are mostly a foot high or taller, some with visible buds. Some with the obvious, larger buds sprouted later than the others, so where is the logic there?
I did a walk around yesterday, counting the herbaceous peonies, now that the last ones have broken ground. There are about 40 plants, and other than the doubles that were here when we moved in almost years ago, they are all Japanese with a single or bombe type bloom. Most were pretty cheap and took quite some time to mature. I did not realize till I moved some that they hadn't grown on top but had developed the most interesting large, woody root system. I think of them as icebergs (90% below ground level).
The best thing you can do for your peony is to make certain the crown is no deeper than 1-1.5 inches below the soil level. That is the soft growth area atop the woody roots. The worst thing you can do is to plant a herbaceous peony too deep. (Tree peonies, on the other hand, need to be planted 8-10 inches deep.) Your peony is a herbaceous or lactiflora with stems that dry up and die in the winter, so NOT deep. Is it in bloom now, and how many stems can you see?
Here is the info from the grower. I would expect it to be reliable:
http://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/1673/buckeye-belle-peony.php
Marcia
This message was edited May 2, 2013 2:05 AM
Yes, mine is herbaceous. I had read the bit about this type wanting to be planted shallow, but thanks for reminding me of it. It is in bloom, only one stem as of now. What is the significance of how many stems it has? Wait, when you say "stem", I'm assuming you mean flowering stems, but maybe you mean how many are emerging from the soil? I bought this one because I saw 3 shoots of growth, whereas the others only had two. Only one stem with a bloom, though.
Herbacious peony prices are strange. The peonies that I have acquired for less than $20 are some of my best. My 14 eyed Old House Garden Mrs. FDR is jumping out of the ground. It was $17.50 - last year. Even if I paid full price $22 for the Bannister peonies - and I paid half, those 14 and 9 eyed monsters are appearing. I have been given several peonies as gifts that cost $35 that are busts. The really expensive ones came from Klehm - Coral Charm, White Cap, White Frost. Gone in two years or less. I think that some of the newer herbacious peonies are suspect. They bloom for one or two years and disappear, if they bloom at all. You know what I mean. Someone will take Festiva Maxima and do slight variations and call it Festiva La-di-da and mark it way up in price.
That doesn't keep companies from marking up the classics. Old House Garden's Mrs. FDR, 14 eyes and all, was $17.50. Klehm's was $36. I have probably had more disappointments from Klehm peonies than any. They were all gifts from someone I adored. I checked - they were all very expensive. And now, they're all gone.
To me, a really good lactiflora is one that produces one flower the year after planting. It doesn't have to be more. If I get more than one, it's great. That's a sign, in so far as I've noticed, of good production in future years. I'd love to know what other peoples' standards are.
Cathy, did you mean to say that the only peonies that have done well in shade are doubles? Did you by any chance mean singles?
Donna Mack....that's very interesting.....most of my peonies have come from Klehm's and are all thriving. I have over 30 from them over the last 15 years. In fact, I moved several a couple of years ago and broke off a bunch of roots/small eyes from the main root. I kept the main root with many eyes but gave a nursery man friend of mine all the little bits--probably close to 20. He put them in pots and he hopes they bloom this year so that we can identify them and he can then sell them.
Funny thing is my Coral Charms are monsters. I had one up by my house that I dug last fall and sent a DG friend. I think I sent her more than one large root with eyes. I wanted to plant an Itoh in that spot since they take shade a bit better and my CC was getting enormous. HA.....apparently, I left bits of root behind because I now have 4 separate CC plants left in that spot and one has two blooms on it....! Now, I will either dig them and move them OR move the Itoh....I will probably move the CC to more sun but I have to admire her thriving power.
I've actually never had a peony disappear. But, I have had ones that did seem to go downhill in time. I assumed it was b/c I hadn't dug my soil deep enough when I planted them. I'm in heavy clay. When I was just learning how to garden, the peonies were the first thing I planted and I chaulked it up to my lack of knowledge at the time. I currently have a spot with probably 15 of their roots and my plants are nearly 4 feet and loaded with blooms and all came from Klehm's. I came from Michigan with sandy soil and find the peonies like this heavy (and amended) soil much better. My Michigan peonies never seemed to "thrive" like they do here. kim
I have always been mystified that my Klehms have been disappointments. Everyone swears by them, and the ones I saw in his fields were just outrageous. I'm not sure why, but all of the very first peonies I put installed in 2003 are all still here and thriving. Some of the mid-period ones from Adelman all disappeared. Then I started receiving newer hybridized peonies and they just don't work as well for me, except the singles. And I live in peony land, with heavily amended clay soil. The oldies but goodies such as Mrs. FDR, Festiva Maxima, Ann Cousins, Cornelia Shaylor, Lady Alexandra Duff, just explode for me. People have told me they have never seen such large plants or high bud counts.
I just think the more hybridized ones don't like me.
Donna, the peonies that were here when we came in 2005 are all doubles. Some get only partial sun while about six or so are at the base of a large oak amid the roots or certainly in the shade, even before the leaves appear because it is such an old tree. There is only one dark red on the north side of the house. It grows every year, but the blooms are sporadic.
The former owner planted the tree peonies on the other side of the house that gets 6-8 hours of sun.
I chose to put in peonies that that were either singles or japanese because they are so pretty, their blooms are not so heavy and they are different from the peonies I grew up with. When I started this adventure, I had more experience with foliage plants and annual bloomers, but I've always been a gardener and learn pretty quickly.
I quickly learned that when you plant a little stick with one eye you should not expect much for a while. Also, even when it is not doing much above the soil line, the peony is busy making woody roots. Never got a worthwhile bloom till season three. Season two may have produced buds, but most failed to mature and dried up. This is season five or six for most of the peonies. There is no way to tell which will bloom first as the first with larger buds was one of the last to break ground. While they all have lovely blooms, some of the plants may have as many as 15 blooms and stems galore and others seem to be happy growing 3 stalks. When they re not flourishing, I dig them up and raise them in the soil as the elves seem to be busy dumping soil on the peonies from time to time.
I always use the terms herbaceous (green, nonwoody stem) and lactiflora (milky petals) interchangeably. Is there any specific difference?
Donna, do you know how quickly I should expect an Itoh to grow?
Marcia
Technically, a lactiflora is a type of herbacious peony. It is called that because its stems do not die to the ground. We all get to look at that gorgeous foliage in the fall. Most modern selections of herbacious peonies are hybrids with lactiflora in their lineage. I guess you could say that all lactifloras are herbacious but I guess that means that all herbacious peonies are not necessarily lactifloras.
I use the terms interchangably.
Happy to report that all my Klehm's peonies are doing exceptionally well. I've never had any problems with any peonies from Klehm's.
Even the peonies I buy inexpensively at the big box stores have grown well for me and bloomed beautifully.
I found this interesting for the discussion about the differences between herbaceous and lactiflora.
http://www.ehow.com/facts_7180151_difference-peony-lactiflora-_amp_amp_-herbaceous_.html
I found the same site.
You can never put another peony in the same area that one of the corals have been. The corals will grow new eyes on any part of the root that is left behind.
Intersectional's, Itoh's, can do the same which is why you will often purchase one you will receive a one eyed roots.
When I went to peony convention a couple of years back Carl Klehm talked about Pink Hawaiian Coral as though it was almost invasive. I was given a Coral Charm that I put in a location people kept stepping on, and lost it. It had been a very kind gift, but in fact it clashed with everything else that I had. So I can readily believe that about the corals.
Should be interesting. I put mine in a corner of a somewhat isolated bed. Maybe I should have surrounded it with something. But then, stuff that is sort of invasive down there is rather toned down up here. Although I seethe water celery and blue betony has returned next to the pond and is sending out shallow tendrils. Might have to deal with that before it gets out of hand.
PS. I have had Coral Sunset in a front bed for about three years and it seems to have stayed put. Hasn't even popped a pip yet. Course I only dug it out from the snow a week ago. I remember Julia Rose and Red Charm sending up pips through the snow (very shallow icy) a year ago.
This message was edited May 4, 2013 7:24 AM
Because I love peonies and I have a lot of shade, I have been experimenting with amounts of sun. I believe if I plant a hybrid peony where it gets some shade, especially one with peregrina parentage in it (usually a darker color) it will still bloom as long as I treat it right. That is, it still gets at least four hours or more of direct sun, good nutrients in the soil, and not too many roots nearby to compete with it. I had read that Buckeye Belle didn't need a whole lot of sun so I tried it where it got only two to three hours of full sun, and the rest was dappled sun. I moved it after two years because it didn't bloom. Once Buckeye Belle was put in a location where it got sun every hour except during mid-day when the house shaded it, it started to show its beauty. Some of my other red hybrids are perfectly happy with four hours of sun. Red charm is one of them. I find my two charm peonies (red and coral) to be very robust. It's true that for most peonies the more sun the better, as long as it doesn't burn the blossoms. Some sellers, even Monrovia, are very precise when they say how many hours of sun the plant requires.You will read that some say 4-6 hours needed and others will list six or more. The latter are typically the pure lactifloras.
I have a personal fondness for Klehm because I used to go to their family's nurseries in Illinois while I was in college and I filled my dorm room with houseplants. I have bought some of their peony introductions from them directly since they bred them originally, after all. Not sure if they machine or hand dig their plants, but after a few years, in my garden, they are about equal to even the most generously sized hand dug nursery plant.
Old House Gardens holds my personal record for selling me a root of heirloom pink lactiflora that was almost the size of my head, and it sprang up as though it had always been there.They were apologizing for being late with delivery.
Last Tuesay on the Lowe's adventure, I found an Itoh marked 29.95 that said take me, take me. Opened yesterday to plant and was amazed to find an 8 inch woody rood stem with another small stem or two protruding. Sprouts were in about a half dozen places. So different from the Itoh that was a small fortune at the flower and garden show last year. That Itoh had one strong stem, and I can't remember the size of the root.
Marcia
Just proves we never know where we'll find our next garden treasure.
I had the same adventure, Cathy, and a Bartzella jumped into my cart and came home with me, too! I saw them in full bloom at Plant Delights for $60 and they were amazing. Couldn't pass it up for $35 at Lowe's.
Thanks for the info on Buckeye Belle, Rosemary. I hope mine will have enough sun where I have located it. It gets sun from about 10:30 am to about 3 pm, give or take. We shall see. Bartzella gets an hour more. I wander which, of the two, needs more sun? I may need to switch them, in the end.
Marcia, please forgive me for overlooking your question. I have never grown an Itoh, intersectional, or tree peony. I have always had ornamental trees, shrubs, roses (about 25) or grasses (about 60) so that tree peonies were never something for which I had room. I also have strong color preferences, and bright yellow, brighter than digitalis grandiflora or the leaves of a variegated shrub is not one of them. I don't buy a lot of the new lilies because they are combinations of red and yellow (just got another one as a freebie after ordering white lilies - go figure).
I only grow lactifloras, and my favorites are really the very old ones. And I am starting to favor roses, especially old garden ones, over peonies in my new yard. They are very reliable, and more of them are shade tolerant.
I just dug up my Lemon Chiffon. I put it in a bad place and should have moved it last year. Dumb, dumb. It rotted and is dead. Ouch. I do have another one in the front bed and hope that it will fare better. It is raised and should be okay. I have others (Red Charm and Julia Rose) that sit low but they drained more quickly than LC. Others are sending up pips though no sign of life from the TP yet.
I kissed Lois, White Frost and Moonstone goodbye. And don't worry, it isn't you. They can disintegrate at the bottom even when the top is raised well. Heck, I should know.
This message was edited May 6, 2013 7:10 PM
Well, crapdoodle. That just shouldn't happen... all that effort and food and babying and they can just die for no obvious reason. Good thing I am done buying them. I will probably focus on growing nice annuals to put between the bushes, peonies (I have left -- hopefully 11), iris, lilies etc. I was really pleased that the hardy hibiscus seeds I was sent by a DG'r grew last year and two have come back this year. I may just back off on the dahlias also. I do love them, but they are so much work and so difficult to get through the winter. Oh, I have bunches from last year, and bunches of new ones, but what a job.
I replaced two of them with roses I had always wanted. I may buy one or two more from Bannister and Old House Gardens - and if I can find Cornelia Shaylor I will put it in, but roses have many of the virtues of peonies. Four of mine are thornless. I put in a new Tess of the D'urbervilles from Roses Unlimited two days ago and it has two buds, for heaven's sake. I once had 14 peonies and I am now down to Mrs. FDR, Festiva Maxima, Burma Ruby, 2 Burma Midnights, Kansas and Lady Alexandra Duff. I am really annoyed about Lois. It was so gorgeous last year. I put it in in 2008. Last year it started to show what it could do. It was perfectly placed. I placed it carefully with salvia tesquicola and allium christophii. It was happy. I loved the design and texture. Now it's dead. Crapdoodle.
I don't see how you could have done anything more. I can only grow rugosa type roses outside. I have three. Again not ideally located. I really should move them but I dread killing them in the process. I had some in huge pots and would put the pots in the garage during the winter. They were really in the way and after a few years just got weaker and weaker so I quit roses.
I quit roses, too. Way too much work and maintenance. I did take the throw 'em out there and if they live, they live, if they die, they die approach that a friend of mine has always done. (and has beautiful roses, by the way, with no treatment whatsoever!) Her theory is she will find the ones that are black spot and disease resistant very quickly that way! Well, I guess you would, wouldn't you? Doesn't hurt that she works for a nursery, either and probably gets them at a dime a dozen.
Anyway, I found my fav rose that way, which is Blue For You. I do nothing to it, it blooms its head off and has never given me a seconds trouble. I've never seen the color on another rose, either. It's a semi-double, which I like because I like to see the center of a rose. So much color contrast there!
The Buckeye Belle and Bartzella are my first peonies. Not really a pink or white girl, so peonies have never been on my list until these new colors came out. Kind of like echinacea. Never liked it until the new colors, now it's my favorite flower! We shall see how it goes with the peonies. It might be a one and done, so to speak.
Interesting. I will have to look up Blue For You. Wonder if it has Rugosa blood. Course you wouldn't need a cold hardy rose, just one very resistant to disease. I really like echinaceas but don't have much luck growing them. I have a few new ones planted last year in different spots so maybe they will like those locations better. As with the roses, I can buy and plant in different spots and if they die, well check off that spot and go to the next one.
PS. I did a quick look and it appears that this rose is found in the UK. Couldn't find any local vendors, well local being "in the US."
This message was edited May 7, 2013 8:12 AM
I have mostly old garden roses. Some of the, are more than 150, so they're not sissies. I find that they rquire very little attention. They wouldn't have lasted if they were fussy. I stay away from hybrid teas, grandifloras and floribundas. Not strong enough. But then I did a lot of reseach on roses before I bought the first one. I was looking for a red climber, and found Dublin Bay, which is hghly regarded because of its continual bloom, disease resistance, and retention of color. I never bought a rose without researching it thoroughly. I've got or have had Bourbons, polyanthas, gallicas, hybrid perpetuals, damasks and Portlands. I have also had several shrub roses like Sea Foam, Stanwell Perpetual, Morden Blush, Heidesommer, Quadra, and several Austins. I stay away from the fussy, the weak and the trendy (not a Knockout to be found). But it's easy to do lots of research when you are anal.
I am tending someone else's yard and they have nothing but rugosas, and they hate them. They are suckering, and wow are they thorny. I think they heard that they are easy (which they are, in terms of disease resistance), but they are evil to prune and japanese beetles love them.
Well, you get nasty winters also, so maybe I should try some of yours. What would you say are your most hardy since it is the long cold and relative cool summers that I am most afraid of. I have no beetles that I know of. Probably gray fungus and black spot are my most miserable enemies. Oh, and leaf curlers.
Here's a few pics of Blue For You. As you can see, it comes out fairly dark pink, but changes to lavender very quickly, then the center gets a white ring. Love, love it.
other pics
One more closeup.
So where did you buy it? Probably in a pot already, not a bare root.
I find Portlands to be rock solid. Marchesa Bocchella and Rose du Rescht come through no matter what. Quadra is zone 3. It's vigor is almost scary. Morden Blush tends to lose a lot of wood over the winter and then jump out of the ground in spring, and is one of the earliest bloomers. Sea Foam appears to be very tough, too.
Believe it or not, I've had it for at least 4 years, probably 5. I have no idea where I bought it, but yes, it was in a pot, not bare root. I didn't order it online, so that leaves only a handful of options. Pretty much Lowe's or one of my local nurseries. I don't remember buying it at a local nursery (and I usually remember these type of details), but hard to believe that Lowe's would have carried something that early in it's release. I'm almost positive it was Lowe's, but it's a real mystery.
I have probably already said this but a speaker years ago suggested if you like roses, especially the tea ones that have a problem living over, purchase the cheapest roses at the start of the year. You can find them any places for below $5 or less at end of season. Just treat them as annuals. If they live over good if not cheap enough.
Some of the roses you find are considered by many to be rare so it helps to know your roses.
.both of my roses out back are Mordens. They are okay but not very robust. Must be that lack of sun. Nah. Morden's blush had full sun and Morden's Fireglow has a good amount morning then afternoon.