Tomatoes that cross pollinate by bees

What tomato varieties can hybridize by bees spreading pollen from one flower to the other? I know most tomato pollinate from the inside so they don't hybridize without human intervention.

keith - tomatoes are wind pollinated. It's very unlikely that bees will pollinate tomatoes.

Ok than, which varieties will wind pollinate.

This message was edited Apr 23, 2013 9:43 PM

Any vibration will pollinate tomatoes.

All varieties can be X pollinated by bees, sweat bees are the most common for tomatoes.

Tomato pollen is not disseminated by wind.

Tomato blosssoms either self pollenize, which happens most of the time or they are less commonly X pollinated.

To self pollenize means that both female and male sexual structures are with in the same blossom and pollen from the anthers which are part of the male sexual structures, falls to the stigma that's at the top of the female sexual structure. If not all the ovules in the tomato ovary are fertilized, then bees can still X pollinate those unfertilized ovules.

There's a great article at Southern Exposure Seed Exchange written by Dr. Jeff

Mc Cormack, which discusses all the variables of what's called NCP, aka Natural Cross Pollination.

An here's another article, actually an FAQ from Garden Web, which I've linked to here at DG many times and discusses many of the variables involved.

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/tomato/2005025852004159.html

The above FAQ was a cooperative effort that inluded several folks who were at GW at the time, and yes, you'll see my name at the bottom as well as one them/.

Carolyn

I have that other article IF I can find it I will post a link. Peppers, eggplant and beans (others that I can't remember) also self pollenating. They need the blossoms to move to release the pollen, which the wind does. But the wind doesn't blow the pollen it moves the flowers.

Lisa is correct, wind moves the flowers.

I forgot to mention one other important point.

And that's that most of the time the blossom is pollenized before the blossom is fully open, actually still in bud form..
.
As the blossom develops the stigma pushes upwards making contct with the pollen bearing anthers so the blossom is only partially open and is already pollenized.

Carolyn

Because every year I grow many tomato varieties next to each other, uncovered, and sometimes save seeds and no offspring ever looked like a hybrid, so I was questioning if tomatoes can even hybridize on their own, it seems the answer is no.

Keith, you bring up an interesting point.

I'm wondering how plant breeders get hybridized tomatoes if the fruit is pollenated as the flowers open.

Start with amateur hybridizers who just take the pollen from one variety and place it on the stigma of another variety. That's what Ozark did when he initially crossed German Red Strawberry X Dr. Wyche. In that case it isn't known if of the ovules in the tomato ovary were fertilized, so some self pollenization can occur/

Whem professional hybridizers create a new hybrid it's quite a different story.

They start with two different breeding lines, let's call them A and B and both are open pollinatied varieties.

For each breeding line they introduce genes for even ripening, high solds content, various genes for disese tolerances, lack of green shoulders and on and on.

When the last of the OP's in each breeding line is where they want it to be, then, and only then are those two breeding lines crossed to create the hybrid.

A couple of other points. Commercial hybrid seed used to be produced manually, which is very labor intensive, by having to remove the male sexual parts on the female so they can directly add the desired pollen to the stigma in thefemale blossom. The trend more recently is to create what's know as male steriles so that a blossom is not capable of self pollenizing itself and the desrired pollen, again, can be directly applied to the stigma of the female/

So production of a hybrid plant, that is a directed one, not a chance X pollination, is quite different from commercial development of a hyhbrid whose fruits have the F1 seed.

With just two parents there's just two parental inputs, but with commercail hybirds there can be up to 8 parental genetic inputs, 4 each from breeding lines A and B. Thus it's much easier to dehybridize an F1 hybrid with only two parents, as I did with Ramapo F1, then it is to dehybridize an F1 variety with multiple parental genetic inputs.

Does that help?

Carolyn, who is still struggling with the new keyboard that came with her new computer , so makes mistakes, and is spending far too long correcting them, so is letting them go as is. LOL

Carolyn, thanks for your explanation.

One thing I like about Dave's Garden, is that no one corrects spelling and grammar mistakes. Although, I must admit that I cringe each time I see "then and than" misused.

Although, I must admit that I cringe each time I see "then and than" misused.

$$$$$

Whch I just did above and trust me I know the difference but when my computer man Wayne comes to take home his loaner Monitor I'm going to ask him to plug in my previous keyboard, which is much better THAN this new one. LOL

Carolyn

Then you will have your new keyboard. Lol I try to correct my mistakes but when the computer corrects things that don't need to be corrected....well you get the idea.

http://poststar.com/news/local/disappearing-bees-worry-local-beekeepers/article_f1ede394-a2ee-11e2-9365-001a4bcf887a.html

Above is the link I wanted to give before but just found it in my faves.

It's about the bee situation near where I live and also is great b'c it gives a detailed explanation about Colony Collapse and the many possible reasons for it in addition to what Honey Bees are used for.

Yes, one can see bubmble bees working tomato blossoms, but they aren't the main ones, meanng, I still have to find time to fetch that SESE article about it, but I'm not going to do it now. LOL

Carolyn

http://www.southernexposure.com/isolation-distance-requirements-for-tomatoes-ezp-35.html

Since it looks like no one else is goingto go fetch that excellent article at SESE written by Dr. Jeff Mcaormack,I did so.
,

Please read the section on X pollination and also which bees do what and when and where.

As thanks, Ozark owes me a carrot cake from several years ago, but it hasn't happened yet, so any other takers? LOL I also accept good quality eating chocolate. LOL

Carolyn, having major DSL problems and until solved, who knows when I'll be here next, but I will be so eventually.

An interesting article, Carolyn. Thank you for taking the time to share it with us. ^_^

I love that article. It points out that even tho many plants are self pollinating they still can cross pollinate. Which explains why Ive gotten some mutes in big trades. Not incuding Honeybee, of course. : )

Lisa, what it's all about is that if not all the ovules in the tomato ovary are self fertilized, then yes, X pollination can occur.

Carolyn

He suggests some pretty large distances for isolating to ensure seeds come true even for self pollinating plants.

HE does, but don't forget that Jeff owned SASE and was growing for a comercial business. And I agree that the distances suggested are far too conservative, and he knows it as well.

Carolyn

Ok bc he gives home gardener and professional seed saving distance and I was thinking that for most home gardeners that distance would be in somebody else's yard!

Carolyn,

Not sure if you are familiar with the early IBM PC keyboards but they are considered to be some of the best in the computer business. I'm typing on a 1980s IBM "clicky" keyboard hooked up to a modern computer. It has excellent tactile characteristics and is built like a tank. Many people who touch type demand the "clicky" and they're still being made today. They actually have a following. I can provide a link if this is of any interest to you.

Pete, I grew up with IBM computers and know what you mean. But my previous Dell keyboaad was great as w ell, and it's sitting over there, ahem, in the corner, and Wayne just contacted me to see if the new Monitor came, it did, so will ask him to take this new Dell keyboard out and put in the old one.

Still getting messages in Japanese and I still think that the Verizon modems are made in Japan, and they were trying to fix the modem long distaince.How would I know if my modem understands Japanese.

yesterday a local Verizon man showed up, I won't go into the details, but all seemed OK after 4 PM yesterday, nothing he did, b'c he called me back, so we shall see,

Carolyn

Pete - I am a "touch typist" from the "old school" and really don't like the flat, soft touch of my laptop. But, I like everything else about it!

?Why do they call it a "laptop"?? How many of us actually use it on our laps?

I use mine on my lap, except when I'm watching a movie. Then I have it on a stand next to my chair - I like to watch in comfort. LOL

First to say this is a very helpful thread. Next to add I am a rolling stone and constantly en route with laptop on board.

How'd we get on the subject of computers anyway? I didn't even realize how much I miss those clicky keyboards. I may have to go searching...