Heidi Chronicles: Question to All Readers

A couple days after Desi started showing up again recently, I found myself wondering how we could be so lucky as to only have the one raccoon. After years of dealing with such a huge group out there, it just seems impossible that there could be just 1 left. I guess it is possible that there may be others stopping by now and then, others that are only show up in the wee hours and, like the presence I felt out there some time back, just never reveal themselves.

"But what about Captain," I thought. Don't get me wrong. With her attitude I'm actually glad she isn't around, but I couldn't help wondering to what we owed that favor. I seemed quite odd that she had not followed Desi back, especially since she (Captain) had found food her in the past. Once they find food in an area, they make a point to revisit that area often. So where was Captain now that Desi was back and enjoying nightly meals of cat food, egg, and watermelon?

I was to get my answer sooner than I imagined, as 2 days later I got busy and forgot all about feeding Desi. By the time I remembered, it was quite dark out, and I wondered if she would even be out there still. She had been arriving well before dark, and I had been going out to feed her in daylight.

When I reached the patio, I threw on the light to find her already on the patio sniffing about in search of edibles. I grabbed everything and hurried out. Her behavior was quite odd. She ran away when I opened the door, and I had some difficulty convincing her to come back for her meal.

She had just started eating when I caught sight of a 2nd, smaller raccoon emerging from behind the flower pots behind me. My 1st thought ran to kits, but I quickly realized that this 2nd raccoon though smallish was still way to big to be a kit. So who was this 2nd raccoon?

I hadn't realized it quite yet, but a better question would have been, "Who was the 1st raccoon?" It took me a minute or two to get it together, but then I realized the 2nd raccoon, the smaller one, was actually Desi. The one who had been on the patio when I 1st went to the door was Captain whom I had not seen for some time before that night. I had been so accustomed to feeding Desi each night that I hadn't paid that much attention, at least not until the real Desi came out from hiding and sneaked up behind me.

Once I recognized Desi, I spoke to her, and she came up close beside me. Captain immediately bared her teeth, growled, and gave chase. If Desi had only known to stay close to me, I could have protected her, but as soon as Captain showed her teeth, Desi ran. Captain continued to chase Desi away several more times before I was finally able to set Desi up with some food close by me, and let Captain know to "Back Off."

I stayed out there with them that night until they finished eating, and Captain remained on her side of the patio from that point on. Unfortunately, the next night I made the very same mistake, showing up after dark only to find both Desi and Captain outside waiting for me.

Bottom line, now I have my answer, at least with respect to Captain. Desi is willing to come out in daylight to eat, and so far Captain is not. Desi arrives between 6 and 7 most nights, although she has come as early as 5ish a few times. That's 3 to 4 hrs before sundown, so as long as I make it out there to feed her early, she has plenty of time to eat before dark - and before Captain arrives. Since those 2 nights described above, I've been careful to feed Desi in daylight and have not seen Captain again.

Eventually the long days will end for this year, and Desi will have to eat in the dark again and deal with Captain. The good news is that this won't happen until some time in fall, which will at least give Desi time to raise her kits up to a decent age 1st. Of course, it is always possible that Captain may eventually get over her fear and come to eat in daylight, but so far she has shown no inclination to do so, and Desi & I are hoping she never will.

OT post....

The tech team rolled out a fix for the cut off threads today. It looks like this one is now displaying properly. (Yaay!)

If anyone knows of any other threads that were cutting off, check and see if they are now ok. Let us know if they are not (with a link please, at the Helpdesk)

Back to your regularly scheduled programming....

Thank you Melody!!! Much better!

Melody,

Thank you very much for stopping by to let us know!

Yayyy!!!! I can read it!! That was so bizarre to see this one thread was wonky like that - I went to the DG page to see if anyone else was having this trouble and saw that I wasn't the only one...

Cheryl, I sure hope that you can teach Desi that she can stay and you will protect her when Captain comes around. I hate the thought of her getting scared off..

Hi June,

I actually never saw the 'wonkiness'. Can you tell me which browser you were using when you saw it that way? I'm using Firefox, the latest stable version, which I keep up to date. I saw somewhere where Terry listed some 3 things that seemed to provoke the 'wonkiness' thing. Per my understanding, really long sentences, posts with 5 pics, and posts with some version of "--- ----" (but with many more dashes/characters) were on the list, and I'm guilty of all of those things, especially the long sentences. I use the dash, dash thing sometimes for alerts or special announcements.

Incidentally, she was not saying that we should stop doing the things listed, just that those particular things seemed to make the site go crazy before they rolled out the fix. I would not be able to write at all if long sentences were banned. ;-)

As to the situation between Desi & Captain, I must not have phrased things right as I seem to have confused people. Although it is true that Captain behaves that way, taking over and chasing Desi off, Captain hasn't been around at all with the exception of the 2 nights a month or so back when I failed to get out there to feed Desi before dark.

So to recap. Desi arrives to eat as much as 2-3hrs before dark, and as long as I am careful to get out there to feed her before dark, there is no problem. This is because Captain never comes out before dark, at least not so far. I'm guessing Captain is afraid to come to the house in daylight. Thus as long as Desi eats early, Captain is not around.

That said, there will likely be trouble in the fall when the days grow shorter, and Desi can no longer get here before dark. Then Desi and I will almost certainly have to contend with Captain. The good news is that by that time Desi's kits, which I haven't seen yet, btw, will be older (i.e., Desi should at least be able to eat in peace during the time when she is nursing and raising very young kits.). Also, I'm hoping by that time Desi and I will have established greater trust so that I may be able to help/protect her.

Cheryl, I have Google Chrome and also tried it with Internet explorer, and I also had the "wonkiness". The page was enlarged and everything on the right side of the page was cut off, you couldn't read the last couple words along the side of each paragraph.

It didn't do it on any of my other threads, just this one.

Hope you have a wonderful day
Debbie

As mentioned, I haven't seen any sign of kits yet beyond the obviously extended teats which tell me they are out there somewhere. While still on the small side overall, Desi is looking much, much better now. Not only has she started to fill out a bit so that her hip bones don't jut out at odd angles, but her coat, which previously had the appearance of an atrociously hacked up cut on seriously over-processed tresses, is now looking smooth and shiny.

Before her hair looked dry and straw-like and stuck out in all directions like hair that had been bleached and permed far too many times. Now it looks as though she has had some kind of really awesome hot oil treatments and deep conditioners applied. My guess is the nursing kits were leaching all of the vitamins and minerals from her system, and she had been unable to find sufficient food to restore them. Aside from the occasional egg, watermelon, and leftovers, she is just getting cheap dog food right now, but it does have all those much needed vitamins and minerals and has clearly helped to improve her condition.

Right now Desi is an odd study in curiosity and the beginnings of trust tempered with a healthy fear lest I should mean her harm. Each day around 6PM or so, I go to the patio door and call her in a low, soft voice, "Desi, Desi." If she is out there, she usually waits in the hedges under the MBR window. When I call her, she comes to the door immediately, right up to the where her front legs touch the door facing, and stands there looking up at me like, "Here I am. Where's the grub?"

Then I have to turn around to gather the food before going out. If I close the door, she vacillates nervously between sticking her nose in the crack of the door to try and get a read on what I'm doing and dancing around on her hind legs in front of the door as though wondering why I called her and then ran away. She seems to be saying, "Wait! Don't go! Here I am! Where is my dinner?"

Sometimes, in an effort to reassure her that I'm still there, I just pull the door 'to' without closing it completely. When I do that, she usually pushes the door open with her nose and then stands there right up against the facing and leaning in to sample and try to make sense of all of the unusual odors in the house/kitchen. She seems truly curious about me and my 'den'. She also shows more interest in possibly coming inside than did any of the raccoons I dealt with previously. I always wonder if she may recall having come into the kitchen when she was a tiny kit - and those wind-surfing, ankle rides she used to take while standing on my shoe?

A few times I've stood there for a few minutes talking to her with the door wide open before I go to gather the food. When I do that, she stands right up against the bottom door facing, only inches from my feet, and leans into the house. At such times she seems so carefree and eager to come inside again. Of course, I don't encourage the latter, but I am always stricken by her curiosity, trust, and exuberance.

When I go out onto the patio to put her food down, she comes right up and puts her nose into the pile of food even as I am pouring it. Yet oddly enough and despite all of these positive signs, when I sit down close by to hang out with her while she eats, she usually shows signs of stress and concern. It's like she is cool with everything up to that point, but is a bit intimidated at having a potential predator sit around watching her as she eats.

I do understand some of it though. I know that it takes considerable courage, for instance, for her to be that close to me and alone. As I've mentioned many times before, the presence of other raccoons goes a long way toward helping them feel comfortable. There is safety in numbers. Each additional raccoon brings another set of eyes, ears, and nostrils to watch for danger signals. Another raccoon might catch something that she has overlooked. Most of the other raccoons were afraid to stay at the buffet alone with me even after years of eating there.

Only a very few like Heidi and Denise were ever comfortable hanging out and eating alone with me. The others would leave and come back when there were more guests. The mere fact that Desi is willing to come all the way up to the house alone is huge, and it's nothing short of amazing that she will eat alone with me there, especially after having known me for so short a time. Actually, she is making faster progress in this respect than any of the raccoons before her. I can't help but wonder if her earlier contact with me as a kit may have some bearing on this. After all, I not only petted her back then, but several times I wrapped my hand around her tiny body and did everything short of picking her up. If she has any memory of those events, it would almost have to influence her behavior now. Still, she is an adult now with adult responsibilities and an adult knowledge of the risks involved.

I don't sit out there with her every night. I don't want her to be anxious all of the time while eating. I don't want her to wonder if I'm just sitting there biding my time for the right time to strike. I figure by sitting out there some days and just feeding her and walking away other days I may look more nonchalant. I think that does seem to be working.

I keep hoping to see the kits, but I realize that she may not be comfortable enough to trust me with them at all this year. That 1st year, Heidi didn't start bringing her kits to the buffet until they were 'teens', and I was sitting farther away back then - there just isn't enough room on the patio to get very far away. I must remember to give her time. I must not become confused into expecting to instantly make the same progress with Desi that it took me some 6-8yrs to make with Heidi.

Thanks for the info, Debbie!

I'm just curious as to why I never saw the weird layout on this thread. I'm curious to know if Firefox actually somehow managed to work around the problem or if I just didn't visit the thread during the time it was effected.

Wishing you a great day, too!

I'm running the most recent version of Firefox and I saw it. I also saw it in Chrome and IE. I'm just glad that the threads seem to be under control...it was upsetting to see things jumbled.

Thanks, Melody,

It was nice to think that one browser might have shown itself superior, but I had a hunch it was really just that the problem showed up during those rare few days recently when I wasn't doing much online. Thanks for letting me know.

I use Chrome and it was only this thread that was chopped like that.

(*blushing) must have been my paragraph-long sentences. :-)

Last night on CNN they did a brief segment about a guy in, I believe it was, PA who 'saved' his dog from a raccoon. The whole thing was somehow caught on video - which somehow makes it seem oddly less spur of the moment. The video has gone viral in case you want to see it. I saw it on CNN and wish I hadn't, as I'm haunted now by the vision of the guy picking the raccoon up and throwing it down a flight of stairs.

The guy assures us the raccoon was not hurt, because he saw it get up and walk away. Right, because no one has ever gotten up after an accident and walked a short distance before dying.

This time of year the raccoon would almost certainly have been a female with nursing kits at home. She would have been out in search of food for herself to keep the milk flowing for her young. The dog would have attacked her, it's just the nature of both animals that it would go down that way. She had no choice but to defend herself.

The guy heard his dog cry out in pain (or fear). He ran out, grabbed the raccoon, and flung it down the stairs. The camera follows the raccoon so you see it flying through the air. I believe they said someone has since set it to music. Great.

I do understand the desire to protect one's pets. I went through this if you recall that time when the raccoons jumped on Widget. Widget yelled a lot, and I was terrified they were killing him. In the end he only had a few small and insignificant puncture wounds. I took him to the ER where he got antibiotics and an extra rabies shot just to be on the safe side. Otherwise, he was fine. Widget is tiny. Two raccoons could have done a LOT more damage to him if they really wanted to. They were just letting him know to leave them alone, and from what I saw that's what was going on in this case.

In this case the dog was about the same size as the raccoon, maybe a little larger - vs Widget who weighed 4.5lbs or less at the time. You could see the 2 'fighting' in the video. It was not a vicious type fight, and the dog who was shown on the segment had no serious injuries, no injuries at all from what I could see. The whole thing looked a lot like the thing with Widget.

I guess I just felt like the guy over-reacted. Pulling the raccoon off his dog was heroic. Tossing it down a flight of stairs, not so much. It would happily have run away on its own given the chance. Of course, I do also understand that the guy probably didn't know that.

It also bothered me that everyone was cheering the guy on - because we all know how viscous and mean those raccoons are. Everyone from the CNN folks to the web folks and even PITA, for heaven's sake, who was quoted as giving the guy a pass in this case for saving his dog. If only there were a way to get people to understand that raccoons really are not the horrible, mean, vicious animals they've been made out to be.

I think the reports of rabies being very common in raccoons is a big part of the negative attention they get.
Yesterday on another thread I sadly read " my next door neighbor always jest catches 'em & drowns em. I can't do that". The writer traps & rehomes them. I had made the comment of looking out for rehoming nursing mothers.

I think you are right about that, Sheri,

Glad you are passing the news around about raccoons. I do what I can to educate people on the topic, too. I guess, if nothing else, maybe that is Heidi's legacy, the fact that she helped to educate all of us about her species, so that we can now go on to educate others.

Pretty important legacy I'd say

http://youtu.be/xZzay8mmkGw

Here's a link to a video which tells about scientists discovering a new carnivore species related to the raccoon! It lives in the Andean cloud forest. I learned about it because the team that made the discovery is a Ph.D. from NC State.

Enjoy!

Hi Amanda,

I was on my way to tell the news. You beat me to it. I learned about it, because they have been sharing it on CNN. How cool is that, about the new critter, I mean. This is the 1st new mammal in 30 some years. It's smaller than a raccoon & now the smallest member of that family.

I thought it was amusing that they had this animal in a zoo for a while, years, I think. They finally figured things out when trying to figure out why it would not mate. They had it labeled as a totally different and completely unrelated species. They kept putting it in cages with others of its type (the wrong type), and wondering why it was behaving so strangely and not mating. Poor thing was probably just trying to keep from getting beaten up by the strangers they kept sticking in its cage.

Thanks for the youtube link.

Say, is that your iguana in the picture?

Yes my green iguana Rita. :)

Well, he just looks like the sweetest, most adorable little fella - or she, if that fits. Look at that big, sloppy kiss. Viewing that pic, I'm reminded of the other night when Cocoa climbed up on my back while I was sleeping and draped himself along my shoulder blade so that his head was resting on my shoulder and his face/mouth was pressed up against mine. Cocoa was being extra sweet because he was trying to wake me to get his food but didn't want me to be angry. Does the iguana ever climb up next to you while you are sleeping and give you a big kiss? Ewww!

I'm getting silly. Think I need to eat something. Seriously though, I asked about the iguana in case you might consider helping me out. I'll understand if you aren't comfortable doing this for whatever reason. One of the things I've been interested in painting, and by painting I mean either pastel or oil, is an iguana. Online I've seen a number of closeups of iguanas, usually of the head and shoulders up to about the mid section, and I've been very inspired to paint one in detail - except that I don't have one to paint. So I was thinking if you could send me yours...

No, wait, what I really need is a picture of one, a good, clear closeup image of the head and shoulder area taken from the side or maybe at a slight angle between side and front (but mostly side, if that makes any sense at all). Well, just think about it for now. I don't need an answer right away. If sometime down the road you take a good pic and think you wouldn't mind letting me do a painting from it, you can let me know then. No rush and no pressure - at all. Totally did not mean to put you on the spot.

Now I'm going to get a bite to eat to see if that will make me less silly, eh, I mean happy.

Some of you may have noticed that I started out with a raccoon avatar recently and then changed to my dog Widget. When the avatar thing was 1st announced, I thought a raccoon seamed like the obvious pic for me. But after I wore one for a while, I began to realize that I post in other forums now and then and not just animal forums either, and most people outside of this thread HATE raccoons! I started feeling self-conscious and uneasy out there in the real world in my raccoon 'suit', so I changed to something more widely accepted - a dog.

I liked your raccoon suit. Nothing against Widget. He is down right precious and makes a great avatar. Just wanted you to know some people liked your raccoon suit!

Amanda, Rita is beautiful!

Thanks everybody! Rita is a she, thankfully. Males get very aggressive during breeding season, even if there aren't any females around to impress. I know people who have received some pretty serious bites requiring stitches and emergency room visits. We have been fortunate with Rita. She has never bitten one of us, with the exception of two of the cats, I'm to understand.

While I was traving for work my BF said that on separate occasions two of the cats showed red around the neck and hair loss. Probably mucking around with her when she was smaller made her nervous and perhaps to react.

Fortunately she's so much larger now no body messes with her. Or didn't used to. We have two kittens now who are just over a year now. They like to watch her move around. She Will take care of herself if necessary. Doubt she'd bite, probably just whack 'em with her tail.

She's at least 8 years old. She's a rescue from a mom and pop "pet store." She weighs about ten pounds and spends .most of her time on a shelf about eye level (for me, 5' ish) looking out an east facing window (absolute requirement when looking for this new house when we moved). She has her own room because of her very specific heat, light, and high humidity requirements. She's got very important food/ nutritional requirements too. If anyone really knew (or cared!) how much effort it takes to keep 'em healthy, no one would have them. They are wild animals and I respect Rita' s moods and her body language, posture, etc. She definitely tells me if she doesn't want me to mess with her.

She's a fussy eater, my bad probably, spoiled her I have, and in breeding season will stop eating completely to live off fat stored in her tail. She may or may not develop eggs to lay. the whole process is maddening and makes me very anxious. From about mid December till End of February or into March. In between my job is to get as much food as possible into her gut, which is sometimes a challenge when all she wants to eat is red grapes.

O well. Happy to answer any more question

Cheryl if you're serious about painting an iguana I'm sure we probably have plenty of photos to choose from. She is so beautiful in a wild exotic way. I am fascinated with her still even after being together since summer 2006.

Thanks for listening. :)

Amanda, Sounds like you are a great reptile mom! Poor reptiles of many types suffer due to people not knowing what they need to survive. Glad you were able to save Rita and spoil her. Great Pic!

Haha - looked back to see some of Rita's more glamorous shots.

First is her at the vet school in 2012.

Second is her breakfast smile in 2009.

Third is a few photos stitched together. Not sure it will display correctly.

Next was in 2009 also, a sharpie next to her for size comparison.

The last one also taken in 2009. She used to sleep in a critter carrier. She looked funny with her chin bunched up like that, but she's too big for that now.

There's a picture of her climbing out of the bathtub that I can't find, but she looks really sexy in it, so I'll post when I can. :)

Forgot to mention that in the image with the sharpie, Rita's belly was full of eggs.

I just love those first two of her smiling...so cute!

So her eggs are infertile, do you take them away from her after they are laid or let her nest?

I love all of them. She's beautiful! She has a great smile! The sleeping pic is so sweet!

Yes, the eggs are infertile. What the world does not need is more iguanas (captive or otherwise) in North Carolina. :D

She was very possessive of the eggs. Instructions are to let them lay until she sort of recovers/loses interest. It was a very stressful process. I had to prepare an "egg laying box" and monitor - it's very dangerous if the eggs rupture inside or something goes wrong. I'm member to several advanced iguana care boards online and have heard horror stories, so though she is a very peaceful and calming influence most of the time, I am a nervous wreck for parts of the year. Another behavior that comes with the breeding season is her stomping around the house looking for a place to lay her eggs. She manages to get to places I wouldn't dream possible, and since they are arboreal want to be up high. I have to monitor this too so she doesn't get hurt by falling (unlike tiggers, iguanas don't bounce). Of course, some would say just close the door! But I want her to be able to act on her instincts when possible as a wild creature, even though she wouldn't be dumping the entire contents of my bookshelves in the wild, it's the most reasonable facsimile I have been able to create. :D

Thanks for your interest. Don't want to hijack the raccoon thread with talk of iguanas. If you want more information or happy pictures send me dmail please. :)

xox

Amanda,

It's no problem, really. There hasn't been much going on with the raccoons lately anyhow. I've enjoyed reading about Rita and have also very much enjoyed seeing her many glamor shots. Thanks for posting those, btw. There are a couple in the group that I might be able to work from. I'll need to zoom in to see. I'm in a bit of a hurry right now, so I'll have to come back later for that, but I really do appreciate you posting them - and she is a very lovely lady.

Two impressions that I had about iguanas from things I had read and/or heard over the years (from people who had them) are:

(1) They are not affectionate, at least not in any manner that is recognizable to us mammals.
(2) They are, for lack of a better word, somewhat fragile in captivity. I think this one fits with all of the things you have said about the things you do to try to recreate her natural environment. My guess is they appear fragile to those who expect to just give them food & water and that's it, no additional effort required. Some years back my vet had one (in her office) that she was trying to rehab. The owner had brought it to the vet in very poor shape, very thin, etc.

I'm very impressed with all that you do to take care of her properly and to try to make her happy in your home. Seems like others are also enjoying hearing about Rita as have I, so feel free to discuss her here.

I did come here to tell you something about the raccoons, but I've decided to change to a new thread 1st. It's WAY past time for that. I have to do some things 1st but will try to get it done tomorrow if I don't get to it tonight. Feel free to remind me, if I forget.

Well Cheryl - I think the more an iguana is handled the less fearful it is of being handled. The human interaction is stressful. Supposed to minimize that so I don't handle her more than I have to. I do pick her up several times a week to take her to the bathtub. We haven't talked about that till now, but she does potty in the tub. Being in water stimulates this process, plus it's good for her skin as she sheds several times a year. So she's relaxed a bit when (?) she knows we're going for a bath.

I have brought her into my bed with me and have been surprised when she went under the covers and laid alongside my legs. she could stay like that for hours and has done so, but she does not move about during the day much and particularly not in the evening. She is not affectionate, but I've heard other owners say to the contrary. AND the pic of her at the vet's office? I was surprised when a vet tech took her from me to go out of the room and weigh her, Rita reached for me like a baby reaches for its momma. That really touched me. I'd forgotten till now.

about being fragile: iguanas in captivity that don't receive the proper nutrients and don't have access to full spectrum UVA/UVB light will suffer calcium deficiency called Metabolic Bone Disease. Fragile is not a word I would use to describe Rita. At the vet's office two or three people had to hold her to restrain her. My vet was very impressed with her strength. In the wild, and/or with the proper husbandry, they can be very strong and very aggressive. Yes fragile perhaps when they don't receive the proper care.

I'm my own worst critic, I feel there is something I could always be doing better so I always try harder to make sure it's right. The humidifier, the lights, the heating elements, electric timers, heating pad, her food, her water, the temperature, in the winter an electric heater, in the summer something to block the air from the HVAC vent, and on top of it all everything in there is a fire hazard. All plugs and cords have to be kept a safe distance from these high powered heaters and lights. GAH. She is the most work of any of my critters, but she asks for the least from me. Court and I agree she is our favorite most of the time, but we haven't had that discussion in a while. :)

Cheryl, Glad you can use some of Rita's glamour shots. Your Iguana art project sounds like fun. Good Luck!
Don't forget the raccoon update!

Amanda, Sounds like you are doing everything you can for Rita to have the best life. I'm proud of you for saving her from idiots. It makes me sick when people obtain any living thing without proper knowledge of how to care for it. People should always research before they take any living thing on. Nothing should have to suffer. Yet so many different critters suffer everyday due to people that don't know or care about their needs. Many exotic reptiles and mammal's need for people to educate others to their plight. You are helping them by putting the information forward. Thank You!

Aww, thanks.

Unfortunately, I'm one of those who gets critters (often!) and know not what to do with them. Sometimes I rescue things, and I just assume there'll be someone/a rescue organization to take them. I didn't know anything about iguanas when I told my BF "I'm going back to get that lizard tomorrow."

I didn't know anything about raising (crippled meat) chickens when I took them from a box slated for disposal after the 4H program at our extension culled them from their healthy "raise a chicken" program.

I enjoy the critters, obviously. Like my old trial lawyer profession, had to learn everything about anything that came down the pipe. Makes my brain swell with sometimes useless information. :D

A.

p.s. Birdie - Rita laid 55 eggs that one time.
p.p.s. The pics I've posted are all of our favorites of Rita. Thanks for helping me find them!

This message was edited Aug 21, 2013 12:22 PM

I've started a new thread here: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1330336/
The Heidi Chronicles is now CLOSED. This marks not only the end of this thread but also the end of the Heidi Chronicles. The next thread will start our NextGen series, a new chapter in the ongoing story of the raccoons and other animals at the backyard buffet.

As always, we will continue our current discussions on the new thread. Hope to see everyone there: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1330336/

This is THE END! (for real. but follow the link above for the beginning of something new.)

Edited to add: When I say "we will continue our current discussions on the new thread", I mean that to INCLUDE our conversations about Rita! Please, please, please come to the new thread to continue the discussions. Please. :-)

This message was edited Aug 22, 2013 2:30 PM