Worms!

howdy from east texas! :)
as many of you might already know, i am a daylily nut! i grow more that 1,000 different dls in raised beds. most of my beds were filled with landscaping mix and have been amended over the last few years with fine pine bark mulch, cotton seed meal, alfalfa and rabbit poo. at this point the soil is almost like potting mix in consistancy. i can easily dig with my hands, which is really nice! however, i pretty much never find any worms!

so, my question is, am i killing my worms with the artificial fertilizers or insecticide that i use? or do i need to "seed" the beds with worms? i would be happy to purchase worms, if i am not just going to kill them by something else that i am doing. oh, and not applying chemicals isnt really an option for me. the thrips can pretty much destroy the color of the bloom or cause bud drop. i have had it happen and it can ruin your bloom season. and rust is endemic to this area and is horribly ugly and stresses the plants. i think it actually contributes to plant death due to the increased stress. especially with our horrible summers we have been having.

any advice would be greatly appreciated! thanks!

tracie

Is there any help with Safer products. or check with Ag extension?
My brother talked with me about the negative changes in his farm soil after years of using broad spectrum pesticides/herbicides...not a worm to be found. At that point all he could do would be to keep adding chemicals to get the corn to grow, as few natural nutrients left or to try return to old methods (crop rotation). Unfortunately, life changes didn't allow enough time to check.
I don't think just adding worms would help..they would just die from residue in the soil.
Is there any part of your soil mixture that would be encouraging thrips or rust? I do use Safers for thrips..also had a recipe that I will try to find. Rust doesn't winter over here..but would cottonseed meal or something encourage it?

Tracie, I am so glad that you have posted this question. I have wondered the same thing here. I almost always find worms when I am digging or planting, but every time I fertilize I wonder if I am killing the worms that I see. We use a slow release fertilizer, milorganite, epsom salt, and alfalfa pellets. We added horse manure or some kind of compost when the beds were first made. We mulch the daylily beds with pinestraw. We are doing similar things that you are. I know you have been getting rain this winter, but I wonder if the high temps and drought that Texas has experienced this past summer and a few years ago might be the culprit. The soil was so hot and dry that worms had to go deeper to find moisture and cooler soil. Lots of worms probably died because of the drought. What do you think?

Doris

Tracie, I would think that if you are only using mulch, cotton seed meal, alfalfa and rabbit poo that your worms would be doing fine. I don't see why any artificial fertilizers would be needed if you are adding these items to your soil a couple times a year or whenever you dig. The only other thing you could do is take several soil samples from different spots and take them for testing at an extension office or similar place.
I don't know about the insectidides but I try to use the kind that you spray right on the plant. I don't think there would be alot of contact with the soil that way. And certainly the things you are adding should't have a build up of anything toxic, so I think if you are conservative with the insect sprays and keep it on the foliage, I don't think it would hurt the soil. Either way, I would call the extension office or some place like that to see if you could test the soil.
Usually the tests are free, or at least don't cost very much.

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/f/soil/all/

I agree with Doris, I use about the same things and my boxs (beds) are always loaded with worms. I also have to spray for rust and insects with no damage to the worms.

It sounds like you have enough organic material to sustain an earthworm population as long as the rate of inorganic fertizers and some pesticides is not too heavy. I would have a soil test done to determine the amount of organic material, the ph level and to determine if you have any need for additional fertilizer.

Tracie, I remember you from a thread I followed some time back when you were in a house that you ended up having to leave, and a lot of DG members helped you dig out all your plants that you so lovingly planted at that house. Looks like you've come a long way since then. That's fantastic.

I have to say that I do think the chemicals are killing the worms. I have read this happens when using synthetic fertilizers, though I don't know if the fungicides contribute. I believe the pesticides would kill them as well.

I have trouble some with thrips, but I don't have the rust here. That's the biggest bonus of living in the north. As for the thrips, I don't do anything with them at this point. Certain daylilies are affected, but most seem not to be.

I have discovered more worms in my beds from adding aged cow manure to them. I just put it on top as a mulch/fertilizer. No weed seeds in it, so it makes a great mulch. I get it by the truckload, and there are tons of worms in it already. Anything organic added to your beds will encourage worms.

Karen