I have two Bartzella peonies. I live near Seattle. This has been a mild fall, and the leaves finally turned to mush and fell off. I went out today to hack them off to a few inches above ground, like a herbaceous peony, but they have big live buds all up the stems, like a shrub or tree peony. I know they are a cross between herbaceous and tree peonies. Should I cut them back anyway?
Itoh Peony care
This is not my direct area of expertise - mine is lactifloras. But I would not cut anything live and growing on your peony. My lactifloras are all showing premature growth too (Buds). It seems to be happening with a lot of peoples' lactifloras, and perhaps that is what is happening to you.
My hope is that someone with more direct expertise will help.
Donna
This message was edited Dec 29, 2011 5:26 PM
I reported the same situation some months ago here in Alaska. And agree it appears to be happening all over. I don't know if anyone else has sent a note to one of the peony growers, so I sent a note to the Adelman's to inquire if they were also experiencing this and if so, did they have any ideas as to why. It is peculiar as it is occuring is such varied places and environments. I am glad for a very deep snow cover over the soil that I somewhat mounded around the buds last fall.
I potted up some peonies and put some in the ground and some in the garage. Two peonies I dug up in October, rather forcefully, are showing pips. I assumed that losing some of their root structure would set them back, but that is not the case. I've been growing peonies since 2003 - not really long, I know. But I have never seen this before. On the one hand it's creepy, but on the other hand I am now quite sure that my roughly dug up peonies will bloom in the spring.
So you potted up two you dug up and put them in the garage? Was wondering how peonies would fare if they arrived very late and needed to be held over winter. What is the temp in your garage? And congrats that your 'rough handling' didn't terminate them.
Interesting....I need to go out and check mine....
It is a fun experiment. It is a detached, unheated garage, and it has been as low as 20 degrees in there. I had a choice. I could leave Lady Alexandra Duff in the ground for someone else, or I could try to bring her with me. I installed her in October of 2005, and wondered if six years made her too mature. It was a great plant that produced flowers the first year after planting. But I had to tear the roots to get her out.
According to my notes I pulled her up on September 23. I did not even get her into a pot until October 1. The root was in the trunk of my car!!! She appeared to be completely dormant, with no activity up top, so I assumed that I would have to wait until 2013 for her to bloom. On December 10, as I was moving plants into the garage I noticed pips at the top of the pot that had not been there before. Imagine my excitement! The plant appeared to reach a state of development that exceeded everything she had shown me previously.
I also dug up a Kansas that had been in since 2003 that had never been successful. It was actually regressing, with dead looking root on top. I didn't feel that one was a risk, but I have always suspected that I did not install it correctly, and this was my chance to do so.
So my conclusion is that they just need cold and dirt. And the beauty of the potted peony is that, like the ones I pulled up and potted last April, you have the entire root system, so you are not disturbing them when you plant.
If Steve hadn't been driven so crazy with his own far more complicated move, he probably could have brought a lot of his younger peonies with him. I dug up every peony Steve gave me in 2009 and potted them (lovely man): White Cap, Lois, Burma Joy, Festiva Maxima, White Frost and Coral Charm. With the exception of Coral Charm, they all bloomed. And now they all are showing pips. (By the way, I had to tear out White Frost, too. It's like Festiva Maxima on steroids. It produced 5 first year flowers. And HUGE leaves. And grew two feet tall. It was actually a little scary).
I am beginning to think that necessity is the mother of invention. I have some incredibly beautiful, mature peonies I could not move. You can't snap your fingers and make them mature - it takes time (and I'm not getting any younger). I think I was so used to giving peonies ideal care that I didn't consider the abuse they can take in places where they are neglected.
Donna
My problem is that the garage IS heated. Even in the farthest corner on the floor, it is probably still 50F. I could put them by the door, but I have kept turkeys frozen on the floor (concrete naturally) by the bottom of the garage door, so too cold there. I checked my dahlias tubers (on a bottom shelf, wrapped in saran) and they are all still firm. I will pull them on March 1st I suppose as they will just start growning in the saran if I don't. Also have begoinias, gladiolus. Just never tried it with peonies.
What about putting them outside of the garage, but throwing an old blanket over them? I had to do that in early December with some perennials on a south facing because I couldn't get them in the ground. They went nicely dormant, and then I put them in the ground two weeks later. I think that might work. Can you give them a southern, but outside exposure?
Oh gosh, a heated garage. Sounds wonderful!
Southern exposure not possible as that is the house side of the garage. Yeah, the garage is wonderful. I lived in Fairbanks dealing with -40 to -60 off and on in the winter. Only good thing is that there was less snow as it won't snow at that temp. But my car froze completely. Flat bottoms on all ltires, and like getting into a refrigerator. Too a lot of gas (even at .85 a gallon) to even begin to warm it up. Had to be plugged in (circulating heater, block heater, battery warmer) just to keep it running, or rather get it running. Every morning and evening, to and from work. I had a short somewhere, so every so often the fuse would blow and I would have not heater. Would have to open a window to vent moisture to see out the window. I would put the kids in the back with quilts around them so they wouldn't freeze. I so very much don't miss that. Just try changing a flat at -40. yuk
I've always thought that you have to be a special kind of person to live up there - and to be a gardener as well!
Ok, last thought. My 68 liles are in a minfridge in my basement (yes, I am crazy enough to have a refrigerator for my seeds and bulbs). 40 degrees. That's why I was able to keep my lilies (68 of them - I like to think they are throwing little parties) . But is 40 cold enough for peonies? Perhaps not.
I think the blanket (actually the old quilts I got at the thrift store - 3 for $9.99!) might do the trick. I would put them on top of potted roses in my unhesded garage, where it sometimes got down to single digits.
Remind me why hyou have lilies in your fridge. Did you get them too late to plant?
"special kind of person"? You bet---- nuts, totally nutso!!
Well, I was moving to a new house, and I had a ton of lilies that I wanted. I knew that I was moving in early December, and while I couldn't take every single lily, I wanted to make sure that I had at least a couple of the out of commerce ones (Emerald Temple, Amethyst Temple, Silver Sunburst). Some times I just got greedy (no need to take all 4 Silk Roads!). Somwtimes I had grown them from seed and didn't want to start again (Candidum Cascade Strain). I had done this before. I had been sent lilies late in the year and I just put them in my mini, because I knew it would work. So, over a three week period, I dug up or took pots each lily, cleaned it, put it in a litttle plastic bag with some peat moss, and put it in the minifridge.
Sometimes I would walk around the yard and just impulsely take a few more even of lilies that grow easily, like regale. I just knew I couldn't plant ti December, and the alternative was to do this, orlose them. And don't many growers do the same thing with fall dug lilies?
Hey, no way anyone who does this is going to call ANYONE nutso!!!
I'm getting lots of fans in the new neighborhood, since the people here previously (for 20 years) grew puuple coneflowers in the front of the house. They can see a rose on a trellis and lots of promising perennial clumps - what they can't see are the four peonies, the anemonies and the nepeta, as well as pink and white daffs. It will be fun to watch it all develop. Since they were organic gardeners, and concerntrated on veffies, their soil is unbelievable, and there is a full composting set-up in the back. I have more shade, so I moved over epimedium and heuchera, shade tolerant grasses, ferns, and put in Burma Joy, which was on the small shady part of my yard.
I really think I put more energy into moving the garden than anything else, since the movers pointed out to me that they don't move plants - not that I would have let them do it!!!!
Oh my. I kind of wondered. Please please post pics of your new yard. I drool with envy. Of course, you also put a heck of a lot of work and expertise into your yard, so just having the soil, sun/shade combo, sf does not comprise the total equation for a fabulous garden. You are the main ingredient. Kudos.
You are the nicest person! I will post. The upcoming year will be an exciting one.
Donna
I am looking forward to your pictures as well. Is your ground frozen or are you able to still work it? Ours is still workable - I went out to check to see if my peonies were putting forth anything new as some of the entries on this forum are showing new growth. I thought how nice it was to poke in the damp soil and not have to deal with any slugs! ^_^. I am not seeing any growth on my peonies yet, but I did see where my daffs are trying to come up and apparently a squirrel had found some of my Giant Snowflake and removed some of those bulbs.
I love the plants you mentioned for your shaded areas - especially the epimedium and the heucheras. I know if I were to move, there would be a lot of plants that would be coming with me as well......
Hi Carolyn,
Our ground is not yet frozen! I pu in some minor bulbs just yesterday - chionodoxa and alliums, that I had been keeping in pots.
I am trying to remember where I put my gravetye giants and particularly my ornigothalem nutans, since I was given them by mistake and they are great but can multiply like mad. And I had to put daffs back in the ground where the crazy squirrels dug them up. What are they thinking - Oh, let's dig this up - whoops , these are poisonous- ok, let's leave them sitting on the surface! What boneheads!
I do take the precaution, every winter, of leaving some finished compost in a place where it won't freeze so I can simply put it on top of any minor bulbs the squirrels have dug up.
I LOVE heuchera Firefly. After trying many heucheras, I found that they only the ones that persist, and grow, year after year. So I found it at JL Hudson and had the fun of growing a bunch of them and spreading them around the yard. After paying ten dollars plus for them, it was fun to be able to grow a dozen for about a dollar!
I love their brightness!
Donna
That is what I really do not understand about the squirrels. It isn't like they are eating them!
Love the H. Firefly. The colors are so vibrant and I know the hummers love them as well. I lost mine last year. Not sure if it was the horrible drought we had or the miserable winter that lasted forever afterwards.
It sounds like you are having fun.....
Carolyn,
You are quite right, they are not eating them. But they leave them on the surface. Which makes them a bit hard to sprout.
I have lost so many heuchers it's not funny. I was particularly persistent with Monet, which is variegated with red flowers, and Cherry Jubilee, which has darker leaves and red flowers. And I just love heucherella (particularly Britgette's Bloom and there was a tiarella called Lacquerleaf that did persist for a few years, and then became wholesale only. Unfortunately, they don't like me!
And yes, I really am having a good time!
Edited for more specifics and to get out the dreaded typos!
This message was edited Dec 31, 2011 8:19 PM
I have Purple Pudding (I think that is the color) and one that is 'black something'. They have done really well here. And I got tome tiarella by mistake but now I love the variation in the leaves, sort of green with tints of reddish orange. It would spread like made but I can easily cut the runners. I planted both in front of some bleeding heart and blue poppies and ferns. Just a little garden area but doing quite well.
Our squirrels can't dig up anything as it is all frozen solid. I cannot even imagine being able to see your ground much less dig in it. But we are gaining daylight now as we are past Dec 21 the shortest day of the year.
Couple of comments. The recommended maximum chill temp for peonies to bloom is 40 degrees F. Peonies need to be held at a temperature of that or below for several weeks.
Most refrigerators stop chilling when the surrounding temperature is cold. Some will start sending out warm air or just not work. Depends on which brand you have. Ask a refrigerator sales or repair person.
I would love to have a frig just for plants.
Donna, I thought I was the only person still planting bulbs at this time, LOL. I've been traveling a lot for the month of December, and just have not had time to finish them. BTW, love your huechera. I've got H. Creme Brûlée that I found years ago, and haven't been able to find it since. In the same bed, some of them have thrived, while others have died off.
I take over our fridge in the basement in the fall to chill my bulbs, and had to get my DH to accept this last year, but he was fine this year.
Ah, you are such a wealth of information, I always learn something new whenever you post.
Happy New Year everyone. Annette
Thanks for the compliment but most of my information comes from experience. Like putting a frozen turkey in a refrigerator in the garage to thaw only to find that it had spoiled in only four days when the temps in the garage went below freezing and the refrig heated instead of cooled.
Of course learning is the best experience sometimes.
Hmm, I wonder if that is why the fridge in our garage doesn't seem to freeze stuff very well. But our garage is about 50F. The fridge is in a corner by the garage door (where the cars go in) so it might be colder, but that even happens in the summer. I suspect it is just old and tired.
Happy New Year to all! I have been trying to learn how to protect camellias in my zone 6a area, so maybe some of the advice for overwintering carries over for peonies in the colder climates.
One recommendation for winter protection is a product called Microfoam, available in small quantities at some nurseries or used in industrial packing. If the pots are stored in a too cold place such as by the door at Oberon's garage, this product might be worth trying as insulation. It is porous and it lets some light through. My camellia source says to put the first few rows of containers on their sides with tops facing the center, with the top of one container over the bottom of another, then a microfoam sheet placed over all with soil or bricks to secure. They say to put poison mouse bait inside the mound before sealing if there's a local mouse problem.
Hm, that's interesting. My peonies are all in the ground, but I would love to try to keep some begonias in their pots, as well as some gladiolas.
I actually have quite a few plants that are not zone 5 hardy. I do the same thing I do with my roses, which is to cover them with old quilts and then give them a bit of water at the beginning of each month. Gladioluses I have always dug up and dried, put in brown paper lunch bags, dusted with sulphur, and put them in my basemenet. True, by late spring they would start to sprout and I had to pop them into the ground, but I actually carried glads over for several years. They would tend to increase, espcially Matchpoint.
Here is a hydrangea shishiva I carried over for several years. Not only is it zone 6, but it's in a self watering pot, which exposes it to greater cold. I get plants from Raulston Arboretum and many of them are not zone 5.
I have about a dozen plants in my garage now
Here is a clethra and a hydrangea I received from Raulston in the year I got them. The hydrangea was once that size. I love stretching zones.
The wonderful thing is that I NEVER wouldhave chosen this plant. But it became almost like a pet, I adored it so. But if you mistime it one year - POOF!!!
Very pretty, Donna. Your extra efforts and know-how really show.
I am starting to fall in love with camillia's. Have not purchased any but a small flowering one's picture "grape soda' has me salivating. Apparently they are now blooming in the Southeast but in another blog there are so many to lust after.
I'm finding that if you love something and are sufficiently anal you can make it work. Raulston gave me the plants as a membership bonus. They have very few members up north and try to reward me for a spnsor membership by giving me goodies. I'm supposed to get two plants, and last year they gave me five.
I went to Garfield Park conservatory a couple of years ago in March and camelias were blooming indoors. I had never understood the camelia "thing" until then.At first I didn't even know what they were. Exquisite!
I'm learning that camellia hybrids bloom from fall to spring depending upon the variety, and there is even a Franklin tree cross that blooms in June. There is a historical greenhouse from post revolutionary times that has a famous camellia collection near where we live. Growing them is more difficult than I initially hoped. They are very sensitive to rapid changes in temperature and to too much winter sun, so growing them in my climate is not a slam-dunk, even by purchasing the hardiest cultivars and planting in the shade. William Ackerman's books are probably the best source on cold-hardy camellias. i can't speak for the experts on Sourthern climates.
Some of the blossom types are classified as "peony-formed."
Growing them as foundation plants may solve the problem of finding an evergreen to grow where it's so shady the hemlocks are scraggly, and we can only tolerate so many yew bushes.
I just love camellias. Here's Nuccio' Bella Rosa blooming today.
I have several shrubs of this variety NBR.
Now back on topic, here is Itoh Keiko with pips all along the stems, picture taken today.
Herbaceous peony Bowl of Cream, also with large pips. My other 2 Itohs Misaka and Yumi also have pips along the stem, but with Yumi, more of the pips are at the base of the stems.
Cem,
Are these pips of Bowl of Cream current ones? That's what I am seeing on mine. They popped up a couple of months ago, I think, and are in a holding pattern.
Donna
Love the camellia blossoms, Cem. And i hope those buds are heralds of good things in the garden.