Traded with DG-er in Romania.
Rec'd letter in the mail from US Customs & Border Patrol today (my DH was a bit nervous being he is Army) that the contents were confiscated and destroyed. :( There was some sort of document that was needed regarding sanitation - I haven't seen the letter - my DH read it to me over the phone.
I will look into it further and advise so folks know the scoop on mailing international.
S
CLOSED: from Romania to US
Port of entry - NY JFK Air Cargo CBP
Quarantine or regulation in violation: 7 CFR 319.37
Disposition: Container and contents destroyed
Reason for Disposition: Material not authorized entry & phyto-sanitary certificate missing
**Phytosanitary certificate of inspection. A document relating to a restricted article, which is issued by a plant protection official of the country in which the restricted article was grown, which is issued not more than 15 days prior to shipment of the restricted article from the country in which grown, which is addressed to the plant protection service of the United States (Plant Protection and Quarantine Programs), which contains a description of the restricted article intended to be imported into the United States, which certifies that the article has been thoroughly inspected, is believed to be free from quarantine pests, and is otherwise believed to be eligible for importation pursuant to the current phytosanitary laws and regulations of the United States, and which contains any specific additional declarations required under this subpart.
Seeds require a phyosanitary certificate
So for all those shipping INTO the us, please check to see if you need a phyosanitary certificate in order to clear customs.
Thank you
http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/plant_imports/smalllots_seed.shtml
Usually when I send overseas I list the seeds I send by the latin name and the amount
packaged both in gram weight and seed count. I even sent and received from Pakistan
with no problems.
Some countries ban certain seeds as they are considered noxious weeds.
I hope this may prove helpful.
I haven't had any problems shipping - this was entering the US. Latin names are listed on the letter I rec'd from customs. I did not x-ref them on the "no-no" list though.
I have also rec'd from other countries without any issues. I do not know the size of the pkg/ltr that was shipped. Disappointed they did not make it out of NY though :(
I have had seeds confiscated from Thailand, but never anywhere else. I have even received seeds from the middle east with no problem.
I wonder why the C&BP is so inconsistent - unless they just do a sampling - that would make sense - but still.
>> inconsistent
Totally! I've received from Canada, Thailand and Belgium with never a hitch (and never noticed any phyto-sanitized certificate.
Corey
Frustrating. HMPH!
Sorry Steph - I'm such a fraidy cat I wouldn't even ask. :/
twice I tried to complete my end of a trade with a member in Chile a few years ago and got a nasty letter from there customs people. I even sent to different names and addys. Guess my name got put on their bad list!!
ruh-roh-raggy! ;)
LOL :D
I've had seeds from the UK confiscated, and received the same letter.They were ones I bought on ebay.
I have sent seeds to Netherlands, Turkey and South Africa and recieved seeds from each in return with no problems.
The seeds I sent to Pakistan arrived safely.
My conclusion: depends on the package, the port of entry and the customs agent. :(
When in doubt I guess, include your customs paperwork.
I posted this in another thread you may find it helpful:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/p.php?pid=4247283
From my understanding it's against the law, and I'm assuming that there is a reason for this. When I've traveled to other countries Ive had to fill out a customs form coming back in to the US that I don't have any Ag. Related products that I'm bringing in. The mail would be the same. It is an attempt to keep out diseases, pests, and plants that could overrun our native species.
I don't think Canada has a problem with seeds but they go with dirt. I'm a commercial grower and I can't/don't ship to CA or AZ, for the same reasons. I was looking at some plants from Thailand and the first question they asked me was "did I have an import license?". I don't so that's the end of that transaction.
I think they search randomly but you take a chance especially with seeds coming in to the US, going out may not be such a big deal. There was another thread about this around here somewhere, if I find it Ill link it. But the bottom line is, it's breaking the law and if they make it in with out a certificate it's an over site, or there may have been a # on the outside of the container that was applied by the sender.
1lisac~ i read what was acceptable for import and export to and from and live plant materials apply, as well as bulbs but seeds were not mentioned, except to canada.
I alway send expot docs if i send a box. If i send just an envelope of a few seeds, i do not include docs.
I am going to review documents for compliance in the future, i recd them in the mail which ones are applicable. I will share more when i have reviewed them.
I guess my post was more towards the "hobby gardener" who just doesnt realize that certain plant materials cant be sent just anywhere. I know many states don't allow the Ox-ed Daisy. I dont do anything internationally because the paperwork is so confusing. It sounds like you have it together so Ill just keep reading the posts. I do know of friends that have snuck seeds into the US by simply not declaring them when they went through customs, those that got randomly searched got them taken away. Just something to think about.
And that is what I was thinking happened in this instance. Random search. Mine made it to Romania with no issues. My tradee is sending again in a "christmas envelope" :) Maybe they will make it this time.
For me it's just not worth sneaking them in. I guess I feel the law is there for a reason, and I'm not above that law. Unless I decide to get the proper paperwork and licenses then I don't get the seeds or plants. I have to admit, when I first joined DG I was surprised how members just sent seeds everywhere. I'm originally from Cal and the Ag regulations are really strict because Agr. Is the # one industry so they have to be extra careful that nobody let's any contaminates enter.
I guess there's nothing I want or need bad enough to break the law. Minnes- if you have export docs can't you find someone with import docs?
Im sure if i requested them, they would either send or refuse, which either way is fine for me. I dont request anything that is not allowed in my state ~ invasives for example. I also keep them packaged for a year before i plant them and do not trade them with others unless they are grown in my own yard for at least two years.
Im not implying i am above the law, i did read the requirements and there was no mention of seeds...which is why this post began in the first place. I was curious if anyone else had similar experiences.
I'm just passing on my experiences of traveling to various countries and the customs paper work not allowing any plant products back into the US. I have been searched by customs and while they didn't find anything on me they did confiscate canned meat from the person next to me.
I'm going to check into the link that Cris gave. Good luck.
When I send seeds outside the country, I always fill out the short customs form listing "seeds", and hand it to the postal clerk. Never any problem, never any sanitary or phyto forms.
One clerk once looked confused, and asked me "Not plants?".
I said "just seeds, not plants", and she said "OK".
I've gotten seeds from Canada (2-3 times), Belgium twice and Thailand once. None I expected from another copuntry were ever blocked. None but the Thai seeds had any other paperwork.
Ironically, the Thai seeds are a federally listed noxious weed, but came through the mail without a hitch despite the paperwork being complete and listing the seeds' name. They WOULD inded be invasive in some parts of the USA, like wet parts of the South East (e.g. Florida).
"Water Spinach" / Ipomoea aquatica / "Water Morning Glory".
semi-tropical and semi-aquatic
I. aquatica requires a very warm, wet climate to flourish (even Hong Kong is only warm enough part of the time)
Possibly some inspectior knows how dry and cool WA summers are, and how the the rest of the year is too cold for this to grow, and sent them through because they;re safe where they were sent.
But my guess is that the paperwork (or lack of it) actually has little or no effect in slowing or regulating invasive species. Each individual gardener has to do that. Doing or not doing the paperwork has little benefit. Being careful about moldy seed and diseased plants does help!
Look at how many nurseries will sell invasive species right in the area where they are most invasive!
Corey
Corey you filled out the paperwork and you bought from a commercial grower that may have turned in paperwork that you don't know about. My point is, that when you do all you can do, then that's enough. I have grown plants from seeds that are marked invasive on the federal thinging. The seeds were given to me legally so I grew the plants, that's my job. They were on the list of invasives but not illegal to grow?
>> Corey you filled out the paperwork and you bought from a commercial grower that may have turned in paperwork that you don't know about.
Actually, I just found an ad on the Internet and asked for the seed. It arrived with fairly offical-looking paperwork on the outside.
Two Canadian seed sites refused to send the seeds anywhere into the USA.
I can be careful about what I do, and I am, but the law seems to be enforced very haphazardly. In anotehr thread, i may have soudned critical of the USPS, but I shouldn't bash them at all. They aren't gardening specialists, and the law is prbably confusing and contradictory (for all I know).
We gardeners have to be careful, day by day and trade by trade.
Fortunately in this case, I'm on the diagonally opposite side of the continent from where they are invasive.
Much more hazardous are common things like Morning Glory or Trumpet Vine: totally safe in many people's minds, but from what I'm told, really invasive in some areas. I've heard tyhat wild petunias (Mexican petunias?) are invasive in some palces, so i have to look them up. Last year, they didn't even sprout.
I tend to call local Master Gradners when in doubt, and I just trust them to be a little over-paranoid but locally savvy, which works for me.
Corey
I just posted after your post. There is a lot more to it then simply invasives. The fact that you are buying through a commercial grower means they are inspected by the USDA or their countries equivalent. The plant may or may not be allowed but they are also looking for Hot Zones of disease and pests that may be found in one region but not another. No the PO has nothing to do with whether plant material makes it or not. They are randomly searched by customs but the growers are inspected by the USDA. That's why I'm going to look in to getting the small lots permit.
That official-looking paperwork on the outside, is more important then you realize. Going through a grower that has all that paperwork insures that you are getting the safest product possible.
That's a good point. If they did the paperwork, some inspector knows to check them out, and maybe they are more conscientious as a result.
While I was at the PO filling out my customs stuff for the DG exchange. Since Im a commercial grower they know me well, but not for mailing seeds and I never send stuff out of the country. I ask a few questions. The USPO employees have nothing to do with what comes or goes. That is done by Customs (this is for the US) they handle what goes in or out. This is only done at Airports and somewhat randomly. The PO just have you fill out the paperwork, the rest is up to the customs agent.
The Agriculture Dept. or equivelent in other countries ensures that the material is to standard, and if a problem arises later they can follow the paperwork back to help determine the origin. I dont know if they are more conscientious so much as they know that this company has an export permit and is legally able to ship their product into our country. Its on the "good to go" list. Its not fool proof but it works better if people follow the laws, which it seems like you did, you just didnt know it. : )
Hmm! If it is Customs being inconsistent and lacadasical, maybe I should be down on them - it is their main job.
Oh well, if they are concentrating instead on keeping out anthrax and plutonium, I guess I won't criticise them for having those priorities.
Almost the only thing I can do besides looking seeds up for local invasivness before I plant them, is to avoid trading seeds where the pods got moldy. Unfortunately, by October, anything brown in my garden IS also moldy!
Sometimes I'm tempted, because after I remove seeds from the pods and dry them further, they don;t get moldy in storage. But I figure that if a seed was in a moldy pod, it must be covered with mold spores, and I might well have local varieties of mold that some other area does not have yet.
Corey
From the info I've read you post nobody was inconsistent. You dealt with companies that had all the correct paperwork and licences, even though you may have not realized it. I,as the supplier, need to know what is allowed and what isn't. I make seed balls and I'm lucky enough to deal with a seed company that says what states the seeds can go to and where they aren't allowed. Take Logees for example, their catalogs say that certain plants can't be shipped to certain states, however individuals may not know this and ship anyway. Or they may think it doesn't matter so they ship anyway.
As far as i understand it that's why it's illegal for individuals to ship and many of the ones that do have the correct permits. It's when these guidelines aren't followed that problems arise.
Yes, you could have mold that I don't want here. Lol. That's what the USDA checks for.