Question about nomenclature

I'm trying to come up with the correct botanical name for my dwarf iris. After some internet research, it's clear to me that it fall in the category of SDB (Standard Dwarf Bearded) iris, but I can't figure out what the latin name would look like. What would the species be? It looks as though several different species have figured into the development over the years. Anyone know the proper way to describe this?

Also, I read a post earlier today that was chiding some forum members for suggesting variety names to people who post photos of NOIDs. I understand that there are many, many varieties, some of them similar to each other, and that without a proper chain of "provenance" (or DNA matching) it is impossible to say for sure. But I have plants that are passalongs, and plants that originally were labeled but the labels have become faded or lost. It is helpful to me if someone says "that looks similar to..." or "that resembles...". If I traded the plant, I would certainly keep the disclaimer in the description, and not state categorically that it IS a particular variety. When more experienced iris growers share their guesses, it helps educate the less experienced like me. Just my 2 cents' worth.

Thanks in advance for any help in the nomenclature stuff.

M.

P.S. The picture is my SDB iris that lost its tag over the years... from Long's Gardens originally, but currently nameless. Cute, anyway!

The botanical name for iris is actually Iris. If you know botany at all, plants are divided into genus, and subgenus. Irises are genus Iris, subgenus Iris, and the bearded irises are section Iris. as opposed to say, spurias which would be genus Iris, subgenus Limnaris, and section Spuria.

Generally we just refer to the SDB as that. It's common practice amongst the iris people just to call irises by their bearded iris classification, TB, MTB, etc.

And you're right, the SDBs do have various species as their parents, like aphylla, lutescens, etc.

I don't think I've really answered your question, but irises normally are just called by the class they're in.

Now, as for the question of identifying irises from a picture. I've already been chided here and on the other site for my views on this. I have no problem with someone suggesting what a iris might be. My problem is when the person who posted the picture says, yup, that's it, names it as the suggested cultivar, and off it goes, to be traded as that name, or sold as that name.

One of my favorite irises, Caesars Brother will never again be truly identified as such, as so many different irises have been sold or traded as that. It's so mixed up now, we don't even know if the original even exists anymore. And that's going to happen to more and more irises as they are traded from 'guesses' on websites such as this.

If you could post a picture, and someone suggested an iris, and you then purchased the suggested iris, and grew it next to the one in the picture for two years, and they grew and looked exactly the same, you could probably safely say it was the same iris.

But, my question has always been, in reality are you going to purchase that suggested iris to grow next to the one you pictured? Probably not. People are not going to spend money for an iris they might already have, or one very similar. So what most people will do is just attach the name to the iris, and trade it as such, or sell it as such.

And I see nothing wrong with just keeping the iris as a NOID.

Now some people may have lists of the irises they've bought. Sometimes a name may jog someones memory, and that's when suggestions are good.

But too many times on here, we have suggested the name of an iris to someone, and then seen that someone selling it a day or week later as the name we suggested. That is why I will no longer suggest names.

Thanks for the reply. I guess my quandry with names has to do with the way the Dave's Garden trade lists display names. For my SDB, I just used the genus Iris. After I finished the entry, it came up as "species Iris", which I'm pretty sure it isn't. Should I put "SDB" in the species field to prevent this?

I understand your frustration with names being misused and true varieties being muddled and lost, and agree that care is needed. But it seems to me that having a list of 40 different types of irises, all listed as "NOID", might not be very useful if you're trying to describe what you have. It may be that there is no good solution with plants that hybridize so easily like iris and daylilies etc.

P.S. I'm one of those people that just might buy a 2nd plant and grow the two side by side, out of curiosity. Of course, that does lead to a rather crowded garden.

I would say so, yes. As far as listing it for a trade.

I actually bought an iris to be sure another one I had was properly named once, so yes, some will do that. Very few, I suspect.

There are so, so many irises, and so many that look so much alike. The iris world is a huge one. I agree you need some way to describe the iris. Maybe some other people will have a good solution for that. I wouldn't describe it as 'looks like Superstition' for example, though.

I'm sure others will chime in here. My take on it certainly isn't the popular one. I'm very glad you're concerned enough to question things.

I only have one iris out of probably 50 which I call by name because I remember buying it and it matches various catalog specs. I have several others I call I.germanica variants since that is what they are regardless of given names. NOID similar to xxxxxxxxxxxxx is my description of all my irises. Frankly, I cannot see how any iris can be positively identified from a picture. It is not difficult to find anywhere from 6 to 10 nearly identical colors for almost any of the common irises. Blues and purples of the self type--forget even trying. Near-blacks are another group very hard to distinguish from one another.

Okay, I'm starting to understand better. Any iris I don't have positive ID for (i.e., bought from a reputable source and came labeled), will hereafter be a NOID in my records. For descriptive purposes, I will follow Oldgardenrose's example and use "NOID similar to xxxxxx".

For trade purposes, I will put the type in the species field, so it shows up as "Iris SDB" for example (instead of coming up as a species iris).

Is there a reference for standard type abbreviations? I've learned SDB, but I don't know the other ones yet.

Thank you all for your help in my iris education.

Here you go

http://www.irises.org/About_Irises/Classifications.html

I'm so glad you understand. I don't want to upset people, I'm just trying to keep irises true to name. The AIS has spent so much time cataloging irises, it's such a shame to mess it all up.

Over 1,000 irises are registered every year. It is like trying to keep orange daylilies straight to work with purple irises.
Zenmom ISm (Iris Society of Mass) is haveing a tour of Joe Pye Weed garden on Mon. May 30. You would be welcome to come, bringing own lunch & cahair & meet the members and see a fantastic hillside garden. I don't know if the ISM website has directions as director is visiting in OR.

I will check, mass.irises.org

Sorry leave out the dot between Mass & irises. It tells of the regional meeting tomorrow not Mon meeting Garden address is 337 Acton St. Carlisle.

Ooh, that outing to Joe Pye Weed garden sounds lovely! Unfortunately, it's a little far for me to go on that particular day. But I will keep an eye out for other ISM events.

Our main meeting place is in Bedford. Takes us about 45 min to drive from Hamilton.