Is rockwool bad for worms?

Is rockwool bad for worms?

I was thinking of starting some seeds in rockwool, or adding shredded rockwool to seed starting mixes, for improving aeration and drainage.

But eventually the rockwool would wind up in my raised beds or compost heap. (I would shred the cubes).

But is rockwool bad for worms? I imagine them trying to eat the fibers and being cut up, but maybe they avoid what they can't process.

I figure this is where the most knowledagable people would be!

Corey

I can't remember what rockwool is made of. Does it make you itch like fiberglass insulation does? If it makes you itch, then it would probably be bad for the worms.

I just know that "seed starting" or "hydroponic" rockwool is different from fiberglass insulation. We are warned NOT to try to use the itchy insulation with seeds or plants.

>> If it makes you itch, then it would probably be bad for the worms.

I'l check out the "itch factor" next time I see some. That's a good point.

Corey

From ehow.com rockwool is composed of basalt and chalk that has been heated and spun into fine, fibrous material. Rockwool is an airy, soft material. Here is the catch there is a similar product that is made from slag from metal smelting which I wouldn't be suprised is called rockwool in some places.

My gut call is that they'd just go around it. If you didn't shred it it'd be too big for them to try to ingest. It's not going to break down in the soil or compost heap.

Thanks Doug.

Corey

Corey, I don't really know that it would be a good idea or not, but it should be simple enough to find out. Mix some rockwool in a little compost, add a few worms and place them in one of those Styrofoam worm cups. If the worms move to the surface or bottom of the container to avoid this stuff I would not recycle it.

Brilliant! And then uit woiuldn't be a matter of opinion or type of rockwool!

>> Styrofoam worm cups

Hopefully a coffee can or peat pot or small cardboard box ...

Corey

Corey, you might try the coffee can half full of media and worms. Leave the lid on and see if the worms try to run up the sides of the can. If they do, I would ditch the idea of adding rockwool.

Thanks!

My compost heap finally got active enough that I have quite a few big, fat worms. Of course, I still have lots of stems, twigs and big pieces, but OH Well.

Corey

Corey,
please don't forget to tell us the results of the coffee can experiment. Many of us are always looking to add to our knowledge and understandin. Thanks,
Paul

I will, but it's a long-term project. My rock-wool plans are for amending seed-starting and potting mixes, and my current focus is on shredded/chipped pine bark and also crushed rock grit.

When I do acquire some rockwool, I'll test it on worms before using any in seed mixes or pots. If I can't dump my pots into my raised beds, I'll have to give the rock wool away.

Corey

Corey, I'm curious about something here. You mentioned your raised beds and dumping the containers which contain the rock wool into the raised beds. Did I get this correct? I too have been toying with the idea of culturing worms in the raised beds and I am concerned about the composition of materials I plan to add to these beds. Drainage and aeration has been a big concern obviously from the crop standpoint but I don't think anyone is considering the possibility of worms providing a solution to both drainage and aeration. I keep thinking the amount of organic material, namely composted manures can be increased over tapla's (Al's) recommendations with the addition of worms to the raised beds. Is this where we are going with this discussion or did I miss something?

I haven't heard worms mentioned recently, but when they are talked about, they tend to be spoken of as a panacea. Mixing organics into heavier soil as castings, digesting un-composted organics, and leaving tunnels behind are some of the advangtages I've heard attributed to worms.

Usually I'm skeptical about anything that gets such fervent praise, but in this case I go along with it.

I used to wonder whether worms were causes of great soil, or just symptoms - whether they might be attracted to the best soil, rather than creating it. But lately I have seen them digging into awful clay and leaving tunnels. That has to be a good thing! And they appeared in a small 'discard pile' of gravel and clay-balls, seeming to improve even that nasty stuff.

And their multiplication in my small, slow compost pile preceeded its partial breakdown.


>> I keep thinking the amount of organic material, namely composted manures can be increased over tapla's (Al's) recommendations with the addition of worms to the raised beds.

My theory is that "more compost is better", and "more manure is either OK or self-correcting". I do incline towards composting things before adding them to the soil, but most people seem to disagree.

Some kinds of manure (?rabbit? chicken?) are called "hot", and aging those kinds seems prudent. I think your plan was to bury raw manure deeply, below the root zone and maybe under wood chips.

The only downside that occurs to me from excessive manure would be if there were so much of it that it made the mix TOO heavy and fine-textured (gooey rather than gritty), reducing drainage and oxygen while it broke down. Worms would help it break down faster.

I know that some plants like "rich, organic soil" and others like "sandy, well-draining, not-too-rich soil". Maybe add excesss manure to a bed that will be used that year for "organic-loving plants".

I see two or three advantages of raised beds over soil, or over containers.

The "raised" part encourages drainage and aeration, even with fine-textured soil or very organic soil.

Sitting on top of un-amended soil, even pretty dense heavy soil, a RB does provide a "wick" the size of the footprint of the bed. Even if the perk is slow, most excess water will quickly run sideways out of a bed, and then only a little more water has to perk or wick downwards to let air back in.

The walls of a RB probably aren't hermetically sealed, and also soil tends to shrink away from the walls a little, letting air in from the sides ... and there is a lot of surface area to the sides of a RB.

(mostly speculation)

Corey

Corey, you ever heard of Buck Minister Fuller the inventor of the geodome? You remind me of him. I was fortunate to hear him speak in person once. These things you mention and more keep floating around in my head as well. I don't like to get fixated on one idea which works best in ALL situations, because there isn't such a thing. Container gardening, intensive gardening in raised beds, French intensive gardening, vermiculture, choices of plants, all have something to add to the formula. If one could only come up with the perfect formula. Well! It's fun to keep banging away at looking for solutions hey Corey.

OK, you smart gardeners. Sphagnum Moss. I always use Sphagnum green peat in my hanging baskets. When I was at Lowes over the weekend they had that and then next to it was Sphagnum Moss made by Mosser Lee. It is made from a renewable resource harvested from perennial live plants that grow in the rich Wisconsin marshlands. The difference is cost is ten fold. Ninety Ninety cents for 432 cu in vs $10.00 for 200 cu in of the green peat. What do you think. Sharon.

Sounds like a bit of a rip Sharon. Any time someone plays on "renewable resource" I get suspicious. I'm not so sure that peat moss in geranial is in danger of being depleted. I have decided to do some forest collecting of Sphagnum Moss here come spring. If successful I will send you a large bag. I took some notes on the subject several months ago and as I recall there is not much to collecting this stuff. Although green it should dry quickly and once dried it weighs virtually nothing.

I tried an experiment of growing Red Salad Bowl lettuce in a refrigerator crisper using SM to line the bottom of the crisper. The media consisted of mostly spent worm media with some MG potting soil and extra perlite added. I placed a 1-inch PVC tube in one corner to bottom water occasionally. I cut lettuce several times a week for four salads. Pretty simple way to add some greens to your winter diet I'd say.

>> Buck Minister Fuller

Very very VERY high praise!
Perhaps more accurate would be my old CB handle: "Space Cadet".

But thank you!
I used to reply to almost any comment or observation with: "On the other hand ..."

Eventually I realized how annoying that can be. Someone started doing it to me in the form:
"On the other hand, you are WRONG and ..."

So now I try to make it clear that I appreciate and usually mostly agree with other people ... but I always wonder what alternative conditions or interpretations might be interesting to pursue.

I also used to think that, if it were possible to state any given question SUFFICIENTLY clearly and with COMPLETE details, it would almost always contain or suggest its own answer. I no longer think that is always ture, but I have found this at work:

Say I have a complicated question or problem, and have not found the answer yet.
There is a person or group I could ask, but I nat to show I have thoguht it through, first.
So I try to formulate a detailed question, including the things I've already tried or considered and rejected.
Somehow, that almost always gives me ideas for more thins to try, and often the "AHA ... DUH!" experience of realizing that the naswer was already right in front of me.

In spiritual matters, it's "ask and ye shall recieve".
In software, it's more like "ask in sufficient detail, and you might already know the answer".

Corey

OK, so tell me where and on what does Sphagnum Moss grow? Sharon.

Welcome Corey!

Forest ground cover Sharon. It could also be the stuff which hangs from trees in the south, but I would venture a guess that most of what we purchase in the stores is simply harvested trom the northern forests.