I have decided to make a peony row into a white peony garden. I will have two and even three rows in some spots when all is done. I have, and I will be planting several different varieties. As I look at placement, heigth is an obvious consideration but not easy considering the huge variation in the listed heights of different cultivars of lactifloras. Also, I wonder if there are suggestions about where to place early vs late? Generally these are middle bloomers plus Nick Shaylor and Elsa Sass espected to be in the end (both fairly short). I am planting a wide variety of flower forms. Clearly tiny petite porcelain is going in front and 36" ers are near the back. N'est pas? Or are there other ways to look at their locations? For now, I think I'll leave the white and blush varieties there as well as the opalescent Moonstone (not yet planted) until I see if they look out of place. Any ideas?
Placement in a group: early vs late, varieties, colors
Are youblimiting the selection to herbaceous or are you considering Itoh or tree peonies?
Thanks for your reply. My white garden is just the regular herbaceous peonies. I have purchased a Cora Louise ITOH root for next fall's planting. I am considering putting it near the others but more off to the side by itself.
Thanks, CL Scott. I've marked this site for future reference. After all is said and done, I hope my choices for the white garden will be late enough to bloom with the lilacs. Marguerite Dessert is in my mixed peony border closer to the house, most of which vary a great deal in bloom times. I hadn't realized how late it is going to be at day 14!
Weather and micro climates do affect the bloom time,
so this table is really only a guide as to which are early bloomers and which are later.
It would be fun to keep track of the plants we all have and compare bloom times to the table.
Agreed. It will be fun to see whether some years we actually get those that are scheduled a week apart all blooming on the same date. I will additionally wonder if some new plants will take a few years to become stable.
I second that any list is just a suggestion, bloom time, color, height etc. What happens one year may not repeat itself. Last year my peonies were way out of order for what they were supposed to bloom.
Red Charm is just another red in my yard and not the beautiful darker red that blooms just two miles from my house.
I started tracking my bloom times in 2009 but I dont have Red Charm yet so cannot reference the table. And wacky weather has surely affected it.
I really prefer the week reference that Lindsay D'Aoust gives- weeks 1 thru 7 - that way I can ensure I have peonies in bloom for as long as possible even if the weather messes up the start of bloom.
Have you noticed that there is always a monsoon just as your peonies start to bloom?
Only for the ones that bloom near the end of May, the large doubles.
It will not happen this year but I have one P corsica, that normally blooms the start of March then followed by several tree peonies. The rest then start blooming. The last two years I have had a couple of plants, tree and other that have bloomed the first couple of weeks in June. A "normal" year I am finished with bloom by the third week of May.
I have wondered if the large doubles have an genetic trait that delays bloom until the atmospheric conditions are correct. If it is a genetic trait it is probably has some the number of seeds formed. My thoughts on this is that the rain will wash the petals off allowing the carpels to be more accessible to insects. However it also would limit the amount of pollen available and wash the necessary fluid that would move the pollen from the top to the base where seeds are formed. Since I will never be able to travel where wild doubles are located to see what the weather conditions are when they bloom I will never have this verified.
Like many of my random thoughts there is no basis of fact.
I agree with fancyvan and want to use the tables
to expand the peony flowering over as many weeks as possible.
I have added several NOIDS over the last few years so will need to
see when they flower. Then new additions could be chosen to fill the weeks I do not have any in flower.
Thanks much for the bloom date info, it will definitely help me in my gardening.
I think it would be really neat to compare bloom dates. I would think we would see a trend and drift of about 4 weeks allowing for the places that bloom first (down south) on up to us in the north. Red Charm bloomed June 28th along with Julia Rose; Fern Leaf Hybrid June 5; Kamata Nishiki and the other tree June 21; Ann Cousins July 25. Have others but don't want to make it a long list. That is fairly representative. All are in full sun practically all day.
Check out the bloom thread the past 2 years :http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1078595/- this is the first of 4 threads from 2010:Carries on into July,usually starts in Texas and usually ends here in Alberta
There was one in 2009 also.
carol
I will do so. I just spent about an hour looking at various nurseries, the ones who just say "early" "midseason" and the one who uses week 1-7. then compared to my charts of when mine bloomed. I have to allow for variation on some as they are still babies (1 year in my garden) and assume they will bloom a little earlier next year. I seem to be about a week behind on most with one or two outliers. Thanks
Mary
I just checked it out. I think I remember following it last year. While they (Texas, IA, IL, CA, etc) are talking about seeing pips coming up late March, I still have at least a foot of snow to melt. My first bloom was June 5, and the first growth (not counting my trees) was April 15. so I guess I AM about one month behind on growth and blooms.
Seems to me if one wants to be accurate for your area - you need Red Charm! I dont have it -yet! I realy just like the 'week' indication- I have been buying early bloomers and trying to get that full 7 weeks of bloom!
In 2010 my Fernleaf bloomed June 6, 2009 it was June 3, some years it has been earlier. In 2009 last t0 bloom was July 12, in 2010 last to bloom was July 9. Those are the only years I tracked. Peonies here were rather late last yer because although spring was early it was then cold and rainy for some time and that slowed everything down. This year might be a late spring and we still have lots of snow so we will see what happens- Canadian Peony Society meeting here July 1 weekend so hope lots in bloom!
And to get back to the white peony thoughts that started this thread here is Leto
Last year, 2010, none of my peonies bloomed when they normally do. I believe it was almost April 1 before my first specie plant which normally blooms much earlier started blooming. Then several of my herbaceous bloomed before any of my trees opened with my last two trees and several herbaceous blooming the second week of June after I got back from the APS meeting. What in the past was a normal year, specie 1st of March, trees, then rest with bloom season ending Memorial day or before was tossed out of the window last season. My final blooms only lasted about two days because many of the blooms were blasted by a combination of upper 90's temps and humidities. Some of the buds espectially on tree peonies appeared to have steamed dry and never opened at all. One that I always look forward to seeing both foliage and bloom had dried buds and scraggly foliage until late July when it became cooler and fall growth started. The fall growth pushed the damaged foliage off the plants or came out much lower on the tp's than usual.
Many of this years buds appear to have started to open last fall then the open bud edges became hard. Does not appear there will be a good bloom season in my yard.
Not to press, but my Red Charm broke ground 4-15 and bloomed 6-28, which I am designating Week 5, with the tree peonies being Week 4, and the Fern Leaf being Week 2. guess that means that I have a lot of holes to fill in. I knew I needed an excuse to buy more peonies.
ah3815, you have my sympathy. Here I have been bemoaning my cold weather. I never thought about how hot weather would affect peonies. How discouraging.
mstella, you NEVER need an excuse to buy more peonies! Unless of course my husband is involved in any way!!! He has been known to chuck out new catalogs before my viewing.......he pays of course.
dem2rd - I get my catalogs along with a stern disgusted look. Since I retired I have slowly (over two years time) cut back. I have only ordered around $200 all told in peonies, plants, seeds, etc. ( in past years I have run as high as $5000 -- when I had more money than sense - lol) And of course I have to add the local purchases of seed starter soil, osmocote, gel propagater, etc. And then come spring I need to find a good compost. I used manure last year. removed all plants, dumped manure and sphagnum on top and rototilled it all in. then replanted. Things looked pretty good, but I think this spring will really tell the tale. I had to replant two peonies. One bloomed anyway, but not the other. But I have faith it will do well this year. I am eyeballing two quinces that have been in my garden for two years plus and done nothing. If they don't 'buck up' by fall I will replace them with two peonies I ordered a month ago. I might do it anyway. Maybe donate them to the local botanical society spring sale.
ah3815, I loved your scientific explanation. I can't exactly agree with it because I have the same peonies planted the exact same day but in different locations, and they bloom at separate times. They even sprout at separate times, so I'm guessing it has to do with either the soil or the sun.
The cynic in me has to agree with dem2 that you can guarantee rain to wreck some of the blooms. Experience tells me to cut them and share them, and so we do. We picked these just before the heavens opened up on May 28, 2010. The peonies damaged most from rain are the doubles.
I have also been know to use a baggie on a big bloom when I know it might rain at night.
Most of my explanation's are not scientifically based but based on observances and listening to what others are saying. It is amazing what tips can be had by just listening. Some will work any where but some will only work one time, in one place and not every where. The latest which I have not tried is using the mosquito rings that are used in water features to control some nematodes in the soil, especially the ones that cause knots in plant roots. Hesitation because if it kills soft bodied creatures it should kill everything in the soil even if just using the water when you do occasional cleaning. Thanks for the kind comment but always on any comment from any where base what you do on causing the least damage.
Mstella give your quinces another year or so as mine bloomed the first year then like lilacs waited until established before blooming again. I am planing on adding several fruiting ones for pollination of quinces and apples. You can use them as temporary shade for the darker red peonies as at least here the dk red's fade fast because the red absorbs more heat than the lighter colors. Of course my favorite use for shrubs is to plant miniatures of all kinds in the area surrounding them. I am less apt to want to plant close enough that the shrub sticks me but is close enough for many spring and fall bulbs and things.
Another side note. Ants and rain on the heavy blooms are poo-poo'd by the more scientific but nature did not create a feature in any plant without a reason. For many of the reasons a study of where the plant originated is needed. A good topic from those that have traveled where peonies orginated in Europe and Asia.
Perhaps you are right. I was so taken with the pictures of flowers on the quinces and really like bushes that flower. I have azaleas and rhody's that are really beautiful and get bigger each year. I have heard that the quinces can be somewhat untidy. Are they amenable to pruning? Seems like they bloom on old wood so would have to be careful. Maybe this year will be the charm.
Can anyone suggest a pretty quince without the thorns? Between the grands, the dogs and cat, not a good idea. But really like the idea of having one, or two or.......
I think mine have thorns as it seems like I have gotten 'bitten' a time or two. Will check.
Actually I think the thorns are what are called spurs on regular apple trees.
As much as we want to protect the little ones from everything that can harm them sometimes teaching them why they should be cautious rather than removing everything would seem to be better. A quince or other thorn seems better to show the dangers than having them not develop caution. I remember reading about children being taught to look both ways before going into the street. How ever most are not taught why. Point was driven home when I stopped a boy from darting in front of several cars. When asked if he had seen the cars his answer was he had seen them. "After all, he looked both ways before starting across the street."
Dogs and cats seem to know what to avoid even if they still get into things they should not.
No luck on my quinces. I googled my little heart out but the blurbs never offer any comments about thorns. Ahaaaa. I found this:
The new Double Take series of thornless quinces features three flower colors - red, pink and orange hues. In addition, the flowers contain higher petal counts, and resemble camellias more than classic quince. A breeding team at North Carolina State University developed the variety for Spring Meadow Nursery, which markets new plants under the Proven Winners ColorChoice brand.
Also known as Chaenomeles, or Japanese quince, the deciduous shrub flowers before leaves appear, creating an eye-catching contrast of colorful blooms on bare wood.
Flowering quince is cold hardy in USDA zones 5-8, and likes part to full sun. It blooms February through April, depending on your climate conditions.
Drought tolerant after its roots establish themselves the first year, the plant is fruitless so it makes no mess that you need to clean up in your yard.
Key features of the Double Take series include:
-Scarlet Storm with dark red, velvety double flowers that occasionally bloom again and again. Flowers appear all the way out to the tips of its branches, unlike many flowering quinces.
-Pink Storm with 2-inch flowers that resemble sweetheart roses in a salmon or coral color.
-Orange Storm with bright orange camellia-like blooms that occasionally bloom again and again.
In addition to garden centers, you can get Double Take flowering quince through White Flower Farm at www.whiteflowerfarm.com and Garden Crossings at www.gardencrossings.com.
Learn more about Proven Winners plants at www.provenwinners.com
Thank you Thank you! White flower farm is just a few miles away......mmmmm
You're very welcome. We both learned something, as I have Chaenomeles, or Japanese quince. Not sure about the other one. It has a different name. Maybe that is the bounder that 'bit' me last summer. lol. Hope you find a beautiful one.
Mary
Thanks for the pic of Leto, Fancyvan. I can't explain the appeal of white peonies except they make a beautiful contrast with evergreens in the garden, and they make a great bouquet inside the house. But then the other colors are pretty nice too...
I have a couple of "sugar tip" white peony, tree type, well...before winter came I did, haven't found them yet!
What is a Sugar Tipped peony? Also, I don't think I've ever seen peonies planted near flowering quince. There are so many things to try! I saw a picture of rhubarb planted with a white peony. There are so many ways to think of building a garden. I am interested in a few suggestions for taller peony plants that are not too early. I think I have to get White Innocence for the back row, but putting quinces in the back is a thought, too.
This is Tree Peony "Sugar Tip" I have seen the same one sold as "Krinkled White"
After bloom
The blooms of many peonies look alike but the two you are comparing are a tree peony, Sugar Tip, and a herbaceous peony, Krinkled White.
Sugar Tip is probably either an English translation of a name or one of the peonies that have been renamed to sell to a English reading population.
That's why I love it here, I learn something every day! thanks
I will keep my eyes open for "Sugar tips." The pictures are lovely. I did order 'krinkled white' to plant in fall 2011. Seems a long time away.