newbie question - double potted orchids?

I have a couple of plants - one phalaenopsis and one oncidium - that were double potted when I bought them. They have plastic pots and are sitting down in clay (oncidium) and ceramic (phal.) pots. Is it ok to leave them like that, or should I try to pull them out of the plastic pots and set them down into the clay pots? The phal. is blooming - the oncidium is not. The oncidium looks a little stressed to me - the bulbs are slightly "wrinkly" but still firm, and the leaf tips seem to be yellowing/browning. I did pull all the moss that was in the pot out that I could without disturbing the plant. The phal. seems to be developing dark edges on the undersides of it's leaves. Any advice is appreciated!

Photos would really help. Is that possible? Oncidiums like wet to dry cycles. Since it's not blooming I'd pull that one and repot into the terracotta with a bark mix. Since terracotta breathes, it will be better for this orchid because it prefers to dry quickly after watering. I bet the roots don't look good if the pseudobulbs are shriveled. Mist it a lot after repotting...even better, put it on a large tray with pebbles and water to raise the humidity. The ambient humidity will help more than frequent watering. I can't see what's going on with this plant, but Oncidiums seem to have a penchant to get ragged and spotty. They also are favorites of spider mites (which are attracted to thin leaved orchids) and scale, so without a photo I can't tell. I might not be able to tell with a photo either.

As for the Phal....can you be more descriptive about the dark edges? Again a photo would really help. Phals with dark flowers often have dark undersides on their leaves. Are you thinking the leaves are rotting?

I agree maypop. Yeah you dont need to double pot. Orchids like good air circulation so a pot with excellent drainage is best. Most people new to orchids sit there orchids into a fancy/heavier pot for looks or if its top heavy it'll hold it up. But replanting it right into a new free draining medium you wont need the double pots.

Thanks for the comments! Following are some pictures. This first one is the oncidium bulb.

and the Oncidium leaf:

This is a picture of the leaves of the Phal - from underneath. They look fine from above.

These are the flowers of the Phal

Here is a photo of another orchid I have in another room. I'm not certain what it is yet - as it was given to me with no tag. Dark spots are developing on its leaves as shown in the photo. The spots aren't soft - and don't seem to be "weeping". Any thoughts as to what this might be?

They all look ok. Most people oncidiums are like that. The phals ment to be like that. and that last one i'd push a pin through the hole and spray a fungicide into it. Try not to keep it with your other plants and see if it spreads any.

The wrinkled pbs on the Onc. look okay, as Bree said. Older ones do that. The leaf should be cut with a clean cutting tool one or two inches below the dark tip. Treat the edge with cinnamon, peroxide or your basic antibiotic cream (neosporin works). Both that plant and the Phal may have been/are being over fertilized or salts are building in the pots. Scrub the pots well when repotting and if the plants are staying in their current pots for a time, flush them through with water for several minutes to get rid of the salt build up. The last one looks like water droplet sun burn.

Thanks for all the great advice! I'm already very happy I joined :-)

I've repotted both Oncidiums that weren't blooming into the clay pots only. Interesting find: one was potted almost entirely in bark mix, the other looks almost completely like moss. I tried to keep from disturbing the original plant ball at all - and just filled in around the edges, which wasn't much because the clay pots were almost exactly the same size as the plastic ones. I've left the Phal. alone for now - since it is blooming. Cinnamon or Neosporin! How interesting! I have trimmed them as well.

On the Den. with the spot - there are more spots on the plant. Maybe I just thought that one was a progression of the others I'm seeing - but if it looks like water droplet sun burn to you - maybe I am wrong about that. It has a number of small dark spots on the leaves - that don't seem to penetrate through the leaf. I tried to get a photo - but they don't show up well. This Den. sits on an East window sill. The window is facing a front porch (so a good 4 feet of roof above) and I've covered it with Wallpaper for Windows so it gets a dappled light source. I created that environment when I received a Paph as a gift.

I'm waiting for my small fans to be delivered so I can make sure air circulation is sufficient, and I have the supplies (rocks, etc.) to increase the humidity. What should I look for in a target number for humidity? Right now - it shows to be about 43% - without augmentation.

Thanks!

I'm glad you joined too. :) Meantime, get as much of the old medium out as possible, especially the sphagnum moss even if you have to go back and repot. I hold orchids in moss in one hand and spray the moss out/loose with a hose sprayer. A chopstick helps loosen things up. Don't worry about cramming the chopstick in there and disturbing the roots They will rot anyway if left with that tamped moss. Bark that clings to roots can be left but all the rest should go. Keep an eye on the Den. with spots. You can try Daconil which has very low toxicity and comes in a ready mix spray bottle. It's gloppy but instead of directly spraying put on a glove and swab suspicious spots for insurance. It is a great broad range fungicide.

Yes don't be afraid to disturb orchid roots, as maypoplaurel said if you leave the old medium in the middle of there roots it just ages and looses water drainage and will rot your orchid. Only some orchids actually don't like there roots being disturbed but with mine i find a repot into a fresh medium and a root trim of any rotted or old roots actually does them good. Gets them growing again and feeding off the new mix. Don't overpot either, if you trimmed any old/rotted roots your orchid may fit back in the same size pot(wash it 1st).
I don't repot a orchid in flower, unless it needs it badly and its effecting the plant. Then i'll cut the spike off and do it.
The spots could be from not enough air circulation but doesn't really seem humid enough there to do that.
clcato- when you say you trimmed them do you mean the orchids leaves?
Is that pic of your orchid with the spots a dendrobium? They like alot more light and less water than a paphiopedilum does, it may be hard to grow them in the same conditions.
Well i just wrote everything i thought of when reading your reply..sorry to go on.

Breeindy - yes - I trimmed the brown leaf tips and applied neosporin.

Now I have another problem. The phal in my previous post has developed two yellow leaves. Searching the forums - it seems like there could be several causes. Too much light seems to be mentioned more than others. I have it in an East window. I water it only when it feels very dry, and weak fertizer after watering. It is in a plastic pot that looks like a growers pot - thin, clear - and the medium is very dense and looks like a mix of moss and some kind of fiber. It seems like if it has been grown in this medium and is blooming it should be ok - but maybe not?

It seems like the more I try to learn and the more attention I give them - the worse they get. *pout*. I love my orchids. I really want to do them justice.

if its in moss and has yellowing leaves i'd say root rot. In a case like this i'd unpot and check, trimming off any rotted roots and repotting into a bark/perlite mix. If there pretty bad i'd trim off the flower spike also to save the plant, so it puts its energy into growing roots not flowers. But if it is in any sun it may be burn. Is it the whole leaf yellowing or browning patches?

Thanks for the tips, breeindy! On the Phal - the whole leaf is yellowing (actually - 2 of them). I went ahead and pulled it from the growers pot it was in. I couldn't believe how much moss was packed in there! There do seem to be some roots that have rotted - but some that still look like they have a chance. I went back with the bark/perlite you suggested. While I was at it - I had a couple of others that have been given to me recently that I inspected. Same thing - stuffed with moss. One also had something that looks like coconut or similar. One of them is in full beautiful bloom - but when I pulled all that moss away - I don't know how it is alive at all! It has almost NO roots - at least none that look alive. How the thing is hanging on I don't know. I repotted both of those as suggested also. Hopefully I caught it soon enough.

I was able to see what might be a normal grower practice - or at least the large producers. (I'm sure many of my gifts have come from Lowe's, etc.) When I pulled away all the moss - at the center is a pretty tight ball that has the distinct shape of a much smaller pot. I'm guessing when they pack them up for "sale" at the large outlets - they stick them in larger pots and stuff moss around them. Maybe because they know they are going to be shipped and then sit in a big box store - and probably not have a consistent watering schedule? I'm just guessing - but I do know if I get any more of these - the first thing I'll do is pull it out of the pot and check medium! The one orchid I have that seems to be doing better than any others is my Paph. - which I adore. I got that one from a "local breeder". I repotted it once - and was terrified when I did it. But so far *knocks wood* - it is putting off new growth.

Now - here's another newbie question: I keep reading about misting daily to keep the humidity up. I think I'm getting that means the bark only - and not the leaves of the plants. Is this something I should be doing? Or will I be taking a risk of keeping the plants too wet? I have some plants that I water twice weekly (they are generally in very small pots and dry out quickly) - and the rest pretty much only once a week. The Phal from above was only getting water every other week because it seemed to stay wet longer (and now I know why!). So - should I be misting daily? If so - just enough to dampen the top bark? Or more?

Trim the flower off the orchid with no roots(it needs the energy to grow new roots now), trim away any rotted bits, spray/dust with a fungicide and repot into a tiny pot of moss. The moss is good at promoting new roots if watered wisely. It will rot roots if watered to much, packed to tight or to big a pot. As it stay wet alot longer than bark and most people new to orchids over water it. You can use a clear orchid pot so you can see if its moist inside or not.
Yes i re-pot every new orchid i get because i think most come in to big a pot. I like small pots with a bark/perlite mix.
You Paph will be in better condition because they like more water than most orchids. I use a smaller bark for these so they stay a little damper longer than my other orchids and the smaller pots i water them more often than my other orchids.
I don't mist, you can put your orchids over trays of gravel with water (not in the water) and the evaporation creates humidity. Mistings more for the plants air roots not the bark and esp. if you have low humidity. I wouldn't let water sit in the crowns of your Phals and Paphs or this creates crown rot.
Hope this isn't just confusing to you..hehe!

ok - as painful as it was - I removed the flower spike and cleaned it up. What kind of fungicide? I did some research - and it seems like there are several. Are they all pretty much the same?

I am getting very discouraged. *pout* Another of my orchids (dendrobium) - which has been doing very well for over a year suddenly and _rapidly_ starting yellowing. 3 days ago it's growth was beautiful and bright green - and now almost all of them have turned completely yellow and fallen off. I swear I haven't changed a single thing regarding it's environment or it's care schedule. What could be happening?

No breeindy - not confusing at all! I really appreciate the patience and kindness you all show us rookies here as we try to learn about these amazing plants. Thank you!

Can you post the orchid please. Many Dendrobiums are deciduous or partially deciduous. Many that are not deciduous do not like a lot of water in winter either. Some need to be left unwatered for months; others just enough to keep their canes from shriveling. Not seeing the orchid I can't advise, and may not have the answer with a photo, but I'd say stop watering and only give it some moisture when it is completely dry.

People might think their orchids slide south in winter because they are tropical plants and can't handle house temps but I think it's often because watering practices are not adjusted to accommodate the season. Dumping water in the plant when it seems like it could use a good drench is not the same as raising the humidity around the plants. This is a major difference between orchids and other houseplants. Because most that we grow are epiphytes, and hang out of trees, they depend on moisture in the air, not in the pot, to thrive.
Laurel

Here's a picture. Just a few days ago all of the leaves were nice and green like the small ones at the base. I don't know it's specific type since this one was a gift.

I can tell I have a lot of studying to do. Good news - I bought 4 orchid books over the weekend - so hopefully I can learn something and stop being such a pest :-)

Thanks for the photo. I'd like to see the whole plant and the pot too. The croaking cane is a fairly young lead. Not good news. I'd pull it from the pot and dry it out. The pot looks too large and the plant would probably benefit from being in a tighter container The small cane at the foreground looks even younger. It's in good health. How and when are you watering? It looks like maybe too often.

See if this photo is any better. It's still in the pot it was given to me in. I can certainly put it in a smaller one. Is there some rule of thumb to use? Twice the diameter of the base of plant or anything like that? (Sorry - I'm an engineer - I need numbers!) The plant was given to me just about a year ago - in bloom. I usually water this one once a week. I run water through the pot and drain well. I use fertilizer mixed at 1/4 strength - and just apply a small amount with a squeeze bottle every week as well.

So I need to pull the one shoot that's yellow now and dry that?

Now that I'm learning to identify the orchids I have better - I am learning their needs are much broader than I have been recognizing!

I'm a nurse and need an operating room. Pull it out of the pot and let it dry out for several days. Do not cut anything yet...the canes are not looking diseased. The canes can grow babies, called "keikis" from their leafless seams. An orchid should be potted in a container that can hold approximately two year's growth. I know this doesn't help you, but in the case of your Dendrobium that would be about a half inch on the older back side and one inch where the new growth seems to be originating. They like to grow tight. Not to worry if it seems to start going out over the edge. A too big pot will stifle bloom and keep the roots too wet leading to your current problem. Once the plant dries off for several days repot in clean medium that is pre-moistened. Do not water for several weeks but mist the plant only after the medium looks very dry. Don't worry about it having no water. After several weeks, water lightly and do not water again unless the medium is dry throughout or you see new growth. This may be every week or ten days. Gradually increase watering after new growth starts. If there are problems in between let me know. I think this covers what I'd do. You can use a fungicide, but I think the plant looks like it's been soggy for a while and that's the problem. You can dust the plant roots in cinnamon if that will make you feel better. I'd just let the yellow leaves dry on their own and dispose of them as soon as they come away from the plant. Sometimes you risk introducing disease when cutting so I try not to unless I see a potential disease problem.
Laurel

yes defenatly take the den out of the pot and see what roots are left.

Using all this great advice - I've carefully inspected all of the orchids I have. I've obviously been doing it all wrong! Some that I thought looked fine have almost no roots at all! I was horrified. So - back to the drawing board. Pots are more appropriately sized, and I have added fans to make sure they get sufficient air flow. I also added humidity meters. I won't give up!

One quick question: I was given another Phal in full flower. When I checked those roots - yes - they were in pretty bad shape. And I just got this one! How in the world do they flower so beautifully when they are suffering so much?! My question is - I noticed first that the flowers are "droopy". Is that usually a sign of too much, or too little water? Or something else entirely?

Flowers are sometimes nature's way of saying "Adios". Orchids are slow growing and slow to die. That's why you take your chances on the bargains or buying from non-grower sources though most of us do have difficulty passing up an apparent bargain. Your Phal. flowers may be too wet, too dry, got too cold in the store or in transport home, or just aging. If you're serious about saving the plant I'd cut the spike all the way off which will allow the plant to put energy into making new roots.

This message was edited Feb 23, 2011 7:22 PM

Thanks Laurel. I'll definitely give that a try. I am notorious for trying to pet plants along to save them - probably long past when I should. I think they deserve all I can give!

Most of my orchids were gifts - but I'm certain they mostly come from places like Lowe's. Since you've mentioned that - where is the best place to look for "starter orchids"? I don't really care if they are flowering when I get them. I really would like to buy a "baby" and learn how to care for it properly. Any advice?

I've recommended Marble Branch Farm because they back their orchids and are well rated here in the Watch Dog. Their greenhouse is spotless and the plants are beautiful. They are very accessible for advising and suggesting orchids for your conditions and experience. They usually include a gift plant with orders over a certain amount and for first time orders. Look at the website http://www.marblebranchfarms.com/ and see what you like, then call and speak to Gary or Mark. I'd wait a week though because there are two S.E. shows this weekend, the Blue Ridge Show in Seneca S.C. and the Savannah show. I've heard they will be attending them separately. The shows go for several days and vendors are busy getting ready.