I have read that some people buy plugs from seed sompanies and I'd like to know more about how this works. Will these seed companies only sell plugs to commercial nurseries or growers or will they sell to the small home gardner? Do they have a limited order requirement? I have this understand that people who buy plugs transplant the plugs into 3 or 4 inch nursery pots and continue to nurture the plants until it is time to plant them into the garden soil. Another question I had was are these plugs normally grown "under lights" once they are transplanted into nursery pots? How can I find out more about what seed companies sell plugs?
Buying plugs from seed companies
Here's a company that will sell plugs to someone without a nursery license or tax number.
http://www.premiumplantplugs.com/
Most companies that sell plugs only sell to someone with the proper licensing. For many reasons. The little plugs can be hard to care for, and losses make the savings not be worthwhile. But many home gardeners have the ability to grow the plugs well.
Minimums can be from one tray (very seldom will they mix trays), up to thousands of dollars. Trays are from 18 plugs to 576, normally in 36 and 72. I would not try any plugs smaller than 72 unless I had a greenhouse.
You can also participate in co-ops on this and other sites, that get plugs.
I don't grow any of my nursery stock under lights.
That's a very expensive site for plugs, folks. But, as usual, when you buy quantity you get better discounts; buying only one plug sure seems pretty expensive (from that business anyway). (Cindy, I bet you could buy a small plant for that price.)
You may want to check out Green Leaf plants ( http://www.glplants.com/ ) for better prices. Keep in mind you'll need to buy flats ranging from 30 or more plugs each. As Polly said, perhaps ya'll could start a co-op if that is too many for one person's need, eh?
For grasses and perennials, Emerald Coast Growers in Florida is a good source. (Google will get you to their site.)
Pippi said, "I have this understand that people who buy plugs transplant the plugs into 3 or 4 inch nursery pots and continue to nurture the plants until it is time to plant them into the garden soil."
That is true, but some plants can go directly into quarts and gallons pots, not just 4" pots. Some will grow quickly, others much slower.
As far as needing to grow under lights, not necessarily. If you have a greenhouse that would be fine. If you have a room that gets a good amount of daylight for most hours of the day that would work also.
Hope this is helpful.
Shoe
Mornin'...
Yes, I do quite a bit with liners, plugs, rooted cuttings, etc.
"Aside from quantity considerations, are there any other tips?"
Right off the top of my head I'd be sure to consider your preferred ship/arrival date. When you receive your plugs sometimes they'll need to be up-potted right away. Some trays will have plugs with a tight root system and those need to be moved into bigger pots to prevent rootbound, some plugs you can let them continue on for a while. The point being don't have them arrive in January if you won't be able to supply a large enough space for them to comfortably live until it is time to set them out. You may want to determine your planting out(side) date then count back X number of weeks for your ship date. That way the plugs can be up-potted, allowed to grow to size, then be at a perfect top growth and root growth for setting out.
You can also play with that time span by ordering different size plugs. A tray with 72 plugs will be smaller plants, needing longer to gain in size than a tray of only 30.
If ya'll decide to do a co-op you can order early (usually before Jan) and get a pre-order discount PLUS set your ship date at that time as opposed to ordering closer to your preferred arrival time and "hoping" they have stock to meet that ship date. I've had quite a few times of back orders and it'll put you behind in good growth. (Shucks, this past year I didn't receive a particular annual until it was nearly the end of summer; no fair, eh?)
If you have more specific questions please feel free to post.
Shoe (pic below are of plants that most, not all, came from plugs)
This message was edited Nov 15, 2010 12:33 PM
Nice set up Shoe!
Did Yoder/ Greenleaf allow you to buy without tax id? They wanted every thing from me, nursery license and all. I know Emerald Coast Growers will sometimes sell to individuals, as there have been co-ops with them before.
The problem with getting the small starts is getting them. Most wholesalers will not sell to you unless you have a nursery license and tax id. Premium Plant Plugs is expensive, but at least you can buy a smaller size there.
And usually, will you need 72 of something? Unless you're selling, probably not. Also a lot of wholesale places have very high minimum purchases. Walters Gardens, for example, is only one tray minimum, but some are $2,000.00 minimum.
Even for my nursery, which is small, I often can't use 72 of something.
There's another place where you can buy plugs without a license and mix trays, and I don't remember the name of it. Maybe Shoe will. Seems like it had mountain in the name.
Good points, pollyk. I guess I could see the plugs as being a good deal if a homeowner had a massive landscape project going on and the space to grow the plugs. And I'm certainly not in the nursery business. The largest number of plants that I purchase at this point (full garden beds) are the summer annuals but if I can get flats at under $12 it becomes a no-brainer for me.
I really have enjoyed this informative discussion.
"Did Yoder/ Greenleaf allow you to buy without tax id? They wanted every thing from me, nursery license and all"
Polly, I've ordered from the for quite a few years and they've never asked for that info. (At one point in my earlier years I gave my SS # to various companies I dealt with but nowadays I wouldn't do that.) I wonder if they know that NY requires more stringent records or the like than NC does?
As for a tax ID number you can get those online, free, in a matter of minutes and you'd be all set.
Emerald Coast asks for that info on their website but I've placed orders by phone and they waived that info. Again, it may be that in NC we don't charge sales tax on Ag products so that may come into play.
Hope this helps.
Shoe
I don't think you will find too many flats under 12.00, Cindy.
Shoe, I doubt nurseries require more from NY buyers, and you sure can't get a tax id online here. In order to get a nursery license, the main thing is that you are in the business of producing plants for sale. My inspector told me that, and it says so right on the inspection certificate.
It may make a difference that you don't have to pay sales tax on plants in NC. We do here, unless they are for veggie or fruit growing.
Can you remember the name of the company that sold plugs to anyone, and would mix the trays? They were a pretty good company, and I recall 'Mountain' in their name.
I'm enjoying this discussion too. Personally I don't think most people should buy wholesale. The plugs are so small they need a lot of care, and that's what a nursery person can give them. Keep in mind, I'm saying most people. Here it costs money to have a nursery license, and I think the license is there for a reason. And keep in mind, if you buy plants from a nursery, and they don't grow, you have some recourse. I guarantee my irises, period. If you buy a flat of plants from a wholesaler, and it arrives in good shape, they're yours. You can't return them because they don't grow, or get them replaced if they don't make it through the winter.
"I don't think you will find too many flats under 12.00, Cindy"
Ditto on that. Sure would be nice though, eh?
"Shoe, I doubt nurseries require more from NY buyers, and you sure can't get a tax id online here."
I have no idea how that works regarding nurseries/growers needing to show a Tx ID number on who they sell to. I was told they needed it for their records but maybe someone in their office wasn't up to par on that.
As for getting a tax ID, you can get one online no matter what state you are in. http://www.irs.gov/businesses/small/article/0,,id=102767,00.html
About the sales tax in NC, if I buy a plant (tax free) and turn around and resell it I have to charge the customer sales tax. If I buy rooted cuttings and then grow them out to sales size it is sales-tax exempt, which is true when I grow things from seeds or do my own cuttings/rootings. Pretty weird, eh?
Sorry I can't help you with the "mountain" company, I've never dealt with any by that name.
". Personally I don't think most people should buy wholesale."
A totally-agreeable yes on that! No doubt the folks reading this thread are not big operations and most likely will not benefit from buying from wholesalers or in large quantities. All the more reason for a co-op (for them), eh!? :>)
Lastly, as a quick side note just to keep the record straight, wholesalers do honor their plants and plant conditions up to a point, usually the shape they are in when you receive them, etc. As to "whether they grow or not" is entirely up to the end user, which is as it should be I suppose.
As for plug size being "tiny", not necessarily, you can buy plugs/plants that are big enough to go directly into gallon pots or if the weather is suitable then directly in the ground. The tinier ones that may need special handling and holding over would be those in the 128 to 244 size. For those wondering how big those are, picture a standard nursery flat, (approximately 11" x 21") containing that many plants. Yikes, eh? Those are what Polly is referring to. And that is a LOT of plants for a home owner to have to deal with.
Shoe
Thanks Shoe. I stand corrected. I was thinking of the NY State Tax Id, but I didn't realize you could go online and get the federal tax ID. Thanks for the info.
And yes, that was what I was saying about the plants from wholesalers. Once you get them, and they arrive in good condition, they're yours. I had a whole flat of heucheras that developed crown rot, and I lost all of them. And that was quite a bit of money. They arrived in good condition, and I had 24 hours from the delivery date to notify the company of any problems. Which of course did not show up in 24 hours.
And I totally agree about the size. If you've ever bought bare root from Walters Gardens, you're lucky to be able to get them in a gallon pot. On the other hand, 244 plugs in a tray, are tiny, tiny, tiny.
Maybe Green Mountain Transplants? I know we did a co-op at one time with them.
Ahah! Here you go, a Google page with lots of links to "Green Mountain Nusery". I bet that is the one you are thinking of. Looks like they offer things from veggie seedlings to hosta.
http://www.google.com/search?q=Green+Mountain+nursery&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Off to close up shop, losing my daylight here...
Best!
Shoe
Yes, that's it. Thanks! Well, it looks like it had mixed reviews in Garden Watchdog.
http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/29/
On the other hand Premium Plant Plugs had good reviews.
http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/7507/
I think you guys should start organizing some co-ops!
Hmmm...looks like Green Mtn is no longer around. Their Watchdog reviews were from 2006,2007,2008 only. And their URL is no longer active. Oh well....
That settles the mystery of Green Mountain Nursery, eh?
Thanks for posting the links, Polly.
Shoe (off to sample what is smelling delicious in the crock pot!) :>)
You can buy a flat locally for that Cindy? And how many per flat? Well sure, then, that would be worth a try. They are big enough to go directly in the ground?
I'm looking into flats for this year.
Flats of?
Lobelia comes to mind, as well as Impatiens.
I thought you weren't going to dig a lot more holes.72 lobelia is a lot of digging.
OPPPPS guess I had no idea what a tray count was. I thought a couple dozen.
I meant the big deep holes for lilies and tulips.
Some flats are smaller. I think the smallest sold now is 18. That shouldn't be too bad.
Thats about right. I have to rework the shady areas of the garden.
I am hoping for your Walworth nursery to have lots.
The number of plants per flat does vary from place to place but minimum is 48 plants. Hope I didn't give the impression that it was 72 plants per flat. With a lot of shade, I rely heavily on impatiens for summer color so I generally buy 8+ flats. I can't find Browalia (another shade annual) in flats so I grow my own. And they do get planted out right around Memorial Day (I don't push the Frost Gods).
In case anyone's interested, I've posted some pics in regards to the plugs folks are questioning and iquiring about on my business Facebook page so that you have an idea as to what they look like when they come in. In this particular set of pics I have trays of 36's and 72's. Enjoy!
http://www.facebook.com/#!/album.php?aid=153078&id=186311658923
Ed
Another place to look if you do not need the quantities that are required for plugs is Bluestone Perennials. They have a good rating in the Garden Watchdog as well.
http://www.bluestoneperennials.com
I have ordered from them for several years now and they continue to be of good service. If there is ever a problem with an order, which may happen on occasion, they will be quick to respond and make things right. In fact they go out of their way to please their customers, and in this day and age, not all mail order houses are like that anymore.
~ Evelyn
Oh, I forgot to mention - most of their plants come in small packs of three. Just right for the home gardener or small nursery.
Hi,
I also looked into flats and think I'll do a few cases this year. I do have indoor grow room with whopping lights (and the electric bill LOL) I was looking at this site:
http://www.harrisseeds.com/storefront/t-PG_Plugs.aspx
I didn't see anything about needing a Tax ID number. You do need a specified number of flats to fill a case. As I recall, some of the growers had larger size "plugs" also. Some even have "plugs" to plant up to gallon pots! I'm guessing they would work out about the same as Bluestone because I ordered from Bluestone 4-5 times. They were marginally o.k. to me but not super well established plants. I always felt like I needed to baby the plants along or I'd lose them. I don't mind it if I only need 6 of something. If I need 25 or more then it's getting to where I'd buy the flat, even if I had to give the rest away. It's super fun to surprise garden buddies:)