Newbie questions

I just bought my first house in November 2008, so last year was the first landscaping I have ever done. Unfortunately, I didn't know how much I didn't know until I was well into it. This spring, I started researching many of my perennials, just to learn how to best care for them. I quickly discovered that I had planted some really invasive things. So far, I've pulled out mock strawberries, loose strife and ajuga. Also, I had seed packets of primrose, flax and forget-me-nots, all of which I ended up throwing away because I read how invasive they can be.

One question I have is, how can "they" sell you these things? The ajuga, loosestrife and seed packets I bought at a big box store so I can - just barely - accept that. But the mock strawberry I bought from a local nursery. It seems like these things should come with some sort of warning. The houses in our subdivision are pretty close together and I learned about the ajuga because I neighbor came over and gently warned me. My point being that you could end up the scourge of the neighborhood by planting things you perfectly innocently bought from a supposedly reputable place...

My other question is what criteria make a plant invasive? It seems like it must be more than just being fast-spreading, because fast-spreading can be a desirable quality, right? I have vinca, creeping jennies, and lamium, all of which I love. I don't want to pull them out!

Is it a combination of being both fast-spreading and difficult to eradicate that make them "invasive?" And, if so, are the lamium and vinca less offensive because they are easier to get rid of? I think I've read that creeping jenny have shallow roots and need lots of water, so I surmise that they are easier to get rid of.

Anyway, any insights into these issues would be appreciate.

"Invasive" vs "well-adapted" is sort of a value judgement (which is probably why we're all hesitating to respond), whether someone happens to like having whatever the thriving thing is. The value could based on how hard it is to get rid of, or on what the impact is if you can't/don't get rid of it. In a natural setting, that impact can be that it out-competes something which is a critical part of the ecosystem, say, a host plant for butterflies. You can read through some of the other threads here to see some points of view.

I'd definitely applaud your sensitivity to your neighbors. From that perspective, it's not going to matter whether we here think something is invasive (bad) or not, if your neighborhood has already reached its own decisions. You might chat with those folks, especially the ones whose yards seem attractive to you, to get more understanding of the choices they have made. Don't fret yourself to death, though, either. I'm sure they can tell you intend to be a good neighbor. Which doesn't mean every single thing you do, intentional or unintentional, would always suit everyone.

Yeah, garden centers sell what sells. If you're a person who goes around with an iPhone or such, just stand there in the nursery and do your research before you buy. Or with just an ordinary cell phone, station a friend or family member at home or the library, prepared to search for information as you reel off species.

Try to get some sense of yourself, of what you like. I think functioning ecosystems are cool, so I almost entirely go with native plants, that don't take much fussing with and that attract animals (who bring yet more native plants in their poop). So http://www.wildflower.org/plants/ is a great referance. Other people think blue is cool, so they try to find as many different shades/colors/shapes. Some folks like waving greenery, others like things that can be shaped and will stay put. It may take a few years, and probably you'll still be making adjustments forever

It's a little like the definition of "weed;" it can very much be in the eye of the beholder. But if it's a plant, like loosestrife or parrotfeather or water hyacinth, that can escape its bounds and naturalize, killing the native flora in rivers and streams and along roadsides, then no matter how pretty it is it shouldn't be planted - or, obviously, sold. We had a naturalist friend who assured us that the variety of loosestrife she was planting wouldn't spread, but of course it did.

Years ago someone gave us lilies of the valley and we planted it in shady areas. It did well and looked lovely. Then recently we discovered that it was actually strangling the roots of our azaleas and killing them. DH has spent a LOT of time getting rid of it, over a couple of years. Trumpet vine is another one that can take over. We planted some by our grape arbor and then discovered that grapes really don't like it. So we had to take it all out and it took years, again, to remove it all. Native plants are always best, but if you want more color, just be careful. A friend just gave me some cardinal climber for a wall we want to soften and make more attractive, and I'm not sure I'm going to plant it. It dies back in our zone but it also reseeds itself.

Seran,

I don't live in Montana, but I know that the climate there is drastically different from say, Florida. What is invasive in one part of the country may be easily kept in check in another part, and impossible to keep alive in yet another. You could grow kudzu in Bozeman without posing a problem. I’m not suggesting you do, I am just making the point that you have to consider the plant in the context of your local climate. Not knowing the behavior of mock strawberry in your part of the country, your local nursery may or may not have been irresponsible. Native species are good choices for numerous reasons. Native, though, has to be properly defined. Every plant is “native” somewhere, and many native Eastern US species are ‘alien” in the Rocky Mountains. In these matters its “Location, Location, Location”

Just FYI, seran (and again, take different climates into consideration), I didn't find vinca AT ALL easy to get rid of. I liked it too, a lot, until I found it popping up 20 - 30 feet from where I'd planted it. It spreads underground by tiny thready roots; when you try to pull it, every tiny thread of root you leave behind sprouts again and you're back to square one. It took me a couple years to eradicate it, by which time I truly hated it. A gardening friend in northern VA (slightly different climate) wanted some of it and I warned her repeatedly, but she persisted and I sent her cuttings I'd pulled. Three years later, it's now taken over her beds and she's going through the same long process to eliminate it. Vinca may be polite in your zone, but I'd watch it carefully unless you want a whole lot of it.
Ruth

Just kind of echoing greenthumb. Some people will throw the word invasive on any plant they had a problem with growing too fast for a spot. So the very conservative apporach I guess is to avoid anything anybody has labeled that way anywhere. But there are plenty of liberal gardeners who would give it a try, or know a specific situation that would work fine, and that's why some things with a 'bad reputation' are still sold.

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies. I had read the "exercise in futility" thread by flabotomy, and I understand the philosophical concerns on both sides of that debate. But at this point, I'm just focused on purely practical issues of not planting anything I'm going to regret later. I have a feeling the vinca might be an issue down the road... But I'm too enamored of it right now to pull it up. :-)

Anyway, I appreciate all of your insights, and am delighted to have found davesgarden.

I have a shade bed of green vinca surrounded by pavement, lawn and a section of hedge. It is completely carefree for me though it miust be creeping under the hedge a little. Its been there and we are both happy (it and me) for twenty years.

Seran72, check out the PNW forum - there's a guy named Soferdig (Steve) who lives in Montana and hangs out on the PNW threads - probably because we're a fun group! I was a new gardener when I started and I've learned so much. The Pacific Northwest had a lot in common plant-wise with Montana.