pruning question

Well, third time typing this and it is getting shorter every time. I had my JM's and Mayday trees pruned in late July last year. The Maydays were then attacked by sap suckers for the first time and only the ones that were pruned. My concern pruning that time of year is could cause sap to attract the birds to attack??. Both trees had a least 50% removed. One was not bothered and one that I did not have pruned was not attacked. I have put Tanglefoot on them and have a fake owl to watch out. What do you think of the pruning and sap sucker timing?

I had 7 Japanese Maples and had two of them pruned at the same time. The green large one appears to be failing and I'm waiting for verticillium wilt testing. The tall red had its buds frozen off in May and it is pushing small funky leaves but it appears to be alive, bark is alive. I will put a picture of that one. I lost a small new coral bark at my front door but it was young and newly planted. We had a horribel freeze in October and another in May. I know there was a lot of damaged and dead JM's in my area so it was bad weather. But why the two that I had pruned and others doing as well as ever? Could the arborist had done something? I am concerned. He has a great reputation and did a beautiful job.

Here is the same tree last year. Not exactly bushy but it has been very consistent overall until now.

I gave this tree two doses of Superthrive two weeks apart. I've had two growers advise this product for trees in this state. I did not give the green one any as I am afraid of pushing any more leaves. It actually is quite full, but has branches that are dying here and there. The red definately got the buds blasted off and I'm hoping it will survive. I can't replant it as it is in a difficult place. This was brought in with a bobcat five years ago and we can't get in there now. I am hoping it gets better and fully recovers. For now, it is getting nothing new. Superthrive and normal watering.

BTW, both arborists I hired stressed to me that all of our trees were planted too deep. I paid someone to do it and watched them. I have no doubt that the rootball was level with grade and that they were shipped from the growers this way. I now know that you have to remove soil at the top to get to the crown and allow those roots to at surface. Too bad I didn't know it at that time or I would have intervened. I'm sure that doesn't help.

I am supposed to remove soil around all our trees and put gravel there so they can get air. We have over 50 trees so it is going to be a huge task.

crazy

wow that sounds like a lot of work - did not realize that trees in the wild had help from critters putting gravel around them - does not sound right to me.

Actually he said trees in the wild have the top of their roots showing and have oxygen that feeds the top of the roots. That growers bury them and resell them to make the root ball look bigger and that landscapers bury them even more because they are ignorant. I do not understand that as once you understand how it is to be done it is easy to see if done. I had to have one of my Corkbark firs raised up as it was really struggling and that arborist said it would die if I left it. Both of them say that most landscapers plant trees way to deep and it is very common, one of the main contributors for plants. They grow extra roots that come to the surface but a more iffy zoned tree might not make it if the roots are buried too deep in a bad winter.

One thing I am not sure of is that big stands of trees have lots of dead leaves, needles and debri that build up over time. I am very confused about what is really the problem. I did amend all my soil and try to not overwater but we do have clay as native and nothing grows well here. Most of my shrubs and other plants are thriving. It is the trees I had pruned and a couple of conifers that have been a challenge.

Crazy

There is a big difference in planting a tree way to deep and planting it to the top of whatever the nursery had it .. IMHO that is a load of crap... Best to always plant high but it's all relative if it is close to the top of the root ball which 99% of potted trees are and not way up on the trunk you will have no problems .. The statement that growers try to make the root ball seem bigger to be more salable is even a bigger load of it .. who the heck looks at root balls .. another thing many trees are root bound but can easily be worked on a bit and spread out ... unless the roots circle and stangle the tree it is no big deal... and very few trees will not have some roots growing less on one side of the pot .and pulling a tree out of the pot too look at roots .. they may look root bound...but may come apart like butter ya can't tell by looking.....if you pull one out that is freshly planted it will have to be re-potted .. if I were the nursery I wouldn't look at you weirdly I would be peeved!!.. all of this is minutia IMHO .. These are things to worry about if you have little else to do ... none of these are big deals .. your one tree has a problem the trunk looks either diseased or winter damaged ... why bother with a test you have lots of space and beautiful space as I see it just plant one somewhere else. .Davidsan

Davidson,

Love your comments on this. How can these trees look so fabulous in the ball and then fail miserably because they are planted too deep. I have no answer Only that two arborists claim this is my problem and that Jap maples are not hardy here Well, why do I have so much luck with most and they are all around me doing very well. I dunno. I am trying to help my situation, but what happpened with the sap suckers/ What is that about? I did everything right and still had serious damage. So why are the arborists focusing on root depth? I took a Master Gardner class and it was the same.

Crazy

Well it is clear to me that your 2 arborists have never done time in a nursery for if they had they would understand that nurseries do not give away their soil in order for rootballs to look bigger. Soil is the one main ingredient for the growth of trees and the replacement of soil every so often is a serious investment for the nurseryman.

I have been working in a nursery all my life and know no other work. I have made plants, planted plants, and dug plants. Grown from seedlings, cuttings, grafts, from liners to finished plants. Have grown in the pots and in the ground. Have dug plants from bare roots to hand digging plants with balls as large as 10 feet across and 5 feet deep. We were even highlighted in the Life Magazine hard cover addition in January 1967 and I have never heard of the conditions you are talking exist in a nursery.

If anyone is planting your plants to deep it would have been the installer. Take a moment and think about what you are saying, do you actually think a nursery takes time and calculates how deep they are planting plants when the machine in going through the fields? No they do not they have men sitting on the back some times 3 or more to the planters and they will plant thousands of plants a day with no problems of the roots being planted to deep or to shallow. Those plants sit there possibly for 10 years or more.

Now if your plant lived by you for 5 years or more then the problem is on your property not some nursery.

Davidsan is right it is time for you to move on and if that tree is not infected with some kind of virus you can always cut it down stump grind and replace it with another maple. In 5 years you will not even miss it.

Good luck in whatever you do but like I said replace the plant and do not obsess with the other plants if they look like they are doing fine right now. All living things come to an end and it looks like the end is near for you maple.

Dave

crazy i agree with dave - sometimes there is no reason - i've lost a few here, one from cracking during a spring freeze and two i had just purchased (separate times) for no apparent reason - i say wait for the tests and if no disease plant another and even in the same spot if it has a clean bill of health.

You know, it was all very upsetting. We spent a fortune on soil, plants and irrigation to have a lovely yard and then to be told that they were done all wrong came as a disappointment. I took the equivilant of the Master Gardener's classes last year and did learn a lot. I do know that the flare of the roots should be visible and none of mine are and it is really difficult to dig through the soil at the base of the tree. I am not sure I have it in me. I may have misstated the arborists comments about why the trees came from the growers buried. He basically said they know little about trees and pretty much dissed the industry. What he did say is that sometimes equipment goes down the rows between trees and over time dirt gets built up and then you eventually get this tree that is buried too deep. That they are balled that way and shipped off and many of them struggle or die three or four years down the road because they were not properly grown and/or installed.

The person I got many of my trees from dug all of his trees with equipment and we had huge rootballs on many of our trees including the Japanese Maples. We had to bring all the trees in with Bobcats because of their size and weight and a couple of them were too big to plant where I had wanted. It was his method as he didn't use manual labor to hand dig. He gave us a lot of soil in those rootballs. And I watched every tree go in the ground and they were planted with the rootball at grade. I asked them to remove the metal cages and the installers said they couldn't. I made them remove the burlap as we had trees planted with burlap that died after a couple of years at our prior home. The number of drips was another issue. I have found that MG's and arborists have a different view than the growers and installers. At least the ones I have dealt with here.

The lab is supposed to have an answer on the testing by tomorrow. So I am hoping the tree does not have that fungus and can be replaced with another one. I will let you know.
crazy

can't believe they planted with cages still on the root ball - does not seen right

Negative on the fungus. I am so happy. I understand there are many funguses among us and I will need ot address this. I tried to contact one professional today but I was too busy. Need to call him tomorrow. I get so busy this time of year.
Crazy