about to hate deer

I planted Stella D'oro, Shasta daisy (Gitas) and pentas at Mom's, and had gottten her a fruitng tomato for mothers day.
Something has eaten all the nice tips of the tomato, all the petunia buds from purple petunia hart brought to swap, all the buds and nearly all leaves of the Pentas, all the buds on Stella and pulled one clump of Stella half out of the ground in the process.

Is there a way to block off larger critters (such as deer) and see if you still have destruction (as from rabbits)? The first thing I would try to do is figure out what I was fighting.

deer a good guess. out of all the things you listed - the shasta is the only thing the deer won't touch here.

Sorry, I got interrupted during my first post. but you got the gist of it anyway. It's so disheartening! I just want to pretty up the yard some and then its ruined.
Everything that got eaten, got eaten as if from the top down. THe tomato in pot stands about three feet tall. The pentas is in a pot on a stand so its four feet off the ground. The petunias are on a stand and about two feet up. The daylilies had stems left but all the flowers eaten and some leaves grazed. I think that pentas proves something other than a rabbit, for the pentas at least.. A squirrel is about, but have been there every year and never seemed to bother petunias--unless this is revenge for having trapped two of them in the attic. Chipmunks have been there for years too but haven't eaten petunias. The pentas was so nice last year, it bloomed forever, I was happy to see it again at the store and remember her saying she liked it...wahhh
I'll have to wrap these things in netting or something.

the deer tend to 'shred' the tops and from what I can see the smaller critters nip pretty cleanly. ah well...........that is why I have bottle trees and other yard art ---for the non-edible color.

Gee mr, I guess you would have to. Bottle trees, and Shasta daisies.
Mom's neighbor just confirmed seeing three deer in Moms front yard the other night.

2 words..... Liquid Fence

That stuff is great!

And meanwhile, get a bunch of garlic, separate the cloves and plant them all around in next to the plants you want to protect. Just regular garlic from the grocery store. Once it grows up, the deer will leave your plants alone.

Otherwise, you have to keep spraying constantly. When I put my first daylily bed in, they didn't just nibble them. I had nice plants with scapes ready to bloom. They ate them right down to the ground. Looked like you'd run a lawnmower over them.

The other thing that really works is to figure out where they're coming into the yard and put up the flimsy plastic deer fence across that area. They're afraid of it, I think because they can't see it in the dark and can get tangled in it. It really works, though.

Arundel County, Md. is way over populated with deer. In the long term serious fences may be needed to protect a traditional food garden. You could hope for a major deer disease wipe out but that is not likely to happen. Many similar housing areas all over the Northeast and North Central geographic areas have or are about to have the same problem. To date there is no really good method of control. When in starvation numbers per any given area they will eat anything. Your landscaping plants are an excellent food source for deer. Deer love suburban homesteaders. Some of your neighbors have them named and make matters worse by feeding them.

You think the deer are bad? Wait until these guys work their way north. And note the date - this just four years after they were released in Kentucky.

http://www.appvoices.org/index.php?/site/voice_stories/virginia_officials_butt_heads_over_kentucky_elk/issue/537

From another source:

"Compared to deer, elk are huge. At birth, an elk calf weighs about 30 pounds compared to four to eight pounds for a newborn white-tail. A mature bull elk stands about 60 inches tall at the shoulder and weighs 600 to 1,000 pounds; female elk weigh 500 to 600 pounds. Mature white-tailed deer, on the other hand, stand about 33 inches tall at the shoulder, and an average buck weighs about 140 pounds; does are smaller."

Oh, great, looks like Pa. released elk in their state back in the '10s and '20s. Now there are about 700 in the state. Can't wait until one of these run in front of my car.

Thanks for the advice! Will be getting supplies.
From all the bad economic news--maybe we'll be thinning the herd here too. I read that they were thin in KY because people needed the meat and were more wiliing to get it.
A park here has an elk head mounted in the visitor center; I beleive it says they were native to this area way back when. They are HUGE.
I've read moose stories- they are Huge and INSANE too.

Sally, Lowes has rolls of the deer fence for around $12-$13, which is a good price. If you can just stretch it across the area where they're entering the yard and leave it there for a season or two, they'll learn to go somewhere else. The garlic really helps too but takes a while to work.

Thanks a bunch!

Here is my experience with deer. A forest is outside our front door so we get lots of deer looking for food. Over the years I've tried many different things to protect my plants and I thought I had the situation under some control until last winter. Here's what we had done: planted mostly deciduous trees and shrubs, put up a plastic deer fence,
caged the hydrangeas (to protect buds). Then the snows came and stayed way too long on the ground. The deer had nothing to eat and worked on things they usually avoid like a Nellie Stevens holly, Otto Lukyens laurel and two sky pencil hollies. Where you can't put a fence try planting decorative herbs like hyssop, lavender, catmint, instead of annuals that deer seem to appreciate. Deer are put off by plants that smell. The Sandy Mush Herb Nursery near Asheville, NC is a wonderful source for herbs and many perennials. What is sold for deer fencing is pretty light stuff and the deer can crash right though it. I put out a heavier weight one and attached strings of shiny Christmas bells along the fence. Deer don't see too well and this does alert them that there is something there to avoid. From afar you can't see the fence or the decorations. Liquid Fence works very well but the downside is you have to re apply after rain. Next fall I plan to cage the hollies and laurel for the winter. Though the trees & shrubs have new growth I'm told the holly, if eaten a second time, will not put out new leaves.

Also the deer rub the trees they don't eat to do something to the antlers - that wrecks the trees.

The liquid fence like chemicals have to be rotated by mechanism of action because the deterrent quits working for the deer after a while-- and so we have to use the preparations with different modes of action.

Agree about that lightweight fence stuff - I hear the folks at work talking about where the fences were flattened, torn, etc.

A neighbor put up that automatic 'squirter' ---the deer approach and it hits them with water..... they actually got used to that too.

Not all bad (of course I wouldn't say this after a trip to the garden) but tonight just at dusk I looked out the dining window and saw a mama deer nursing two little speckled babies. I bet no more than 10 pounds or so.

I trim my holly trees with electric shears two and three times a year every year. They are browsed by deer several times a week. Oh yes I understand that deer can and will sometimes browse beyond the point a shrub can survive. If this is not the case then I doubt the holly would fail to push new leaves. So far they have not elected to stand and eat as compared to walk by browse on my property. My holly responds to deer browse the same as they respond to shearing. We have planted plants that normally are not bothered by deer.

One air mile from my property there is much over population. Those yards and foundation plantings have been destroyed by the deer. The only way this will be corrected is a major change in hunting or harvesting of them. We have game laws preventing leagle harvesting on non commercial food producing plots under ten acres. Developed areas are eliminated by common sense elimination of hunting for safety reasons. My home is right beside acres that can be hunted. Presently the herds are harvested to acceptable levels. If that land develops we will be back in trouble due to lack of hunting pressure within three or four years. We did have a problem several years ago. A group of homeowners with open acres have reversed their no hunting positions because of over population of deer.

A ten foot fence or higher is required to keep deer outside a given area. This would be a major expense and often ruins the visual beauty of a property.

Doc, I put up the plastic deer fence on 5 foot stakes and draped about a foot of the extra across the top and about a foot of it on the ground around the bottom. I took another piece and hooked it across the hole in the old barbed wire fence at the back of my land where they were coming in. That might have been 4 feet high. I draped another piece over the honeysuckle growing there.

In theory, yes, a deer can jump any of those fences. But it sure worked to keep them out. I think it's because they can't see it in the dark and can get tangled in it because I know they could easily jump any of those.

I tried everything and I do mean everything - sprays, hair, soap, urine. Nothing worked for more than a few weeks. The garlic plantings and the deer fence worked and I haven't had a problem since. The deer fence is long gone although the garlic is still plugging away but the deer act as if the fence is still there.

We're surrounded by a national forest, where there are lots of critters but hunting is allowed during season. Friends who live a few miles away in Front Royal have it much worse than us for deer, bears, even skunks because they're near Shenandoah National Park and no hunting is allowed there at all.

I am very much aware of the Shenandoah Valley from Front Royal to points quite some distance South of Woodstock where I graduated from Massanutten Military Academy.

The Pennsylvania Game Commission in cooperation with the Forestry Department have tried all sorts of methods to fence deer out of new growth logged over North Central Mountains. They use nothing but wire fencing now following the logging. i might add that when they do this they cause or push deer into adjoining areas to even greater numbers of hungry half starved populations. Then they issue an abundance of extra deer permits which helps but does not near cure the problem. Hunters have given up with the big mountain hunting in large numbers so the harvest is not what is needed. The extra licences go begging for buyers. The bottom line is they may restrict large areas but at the same time increase the damage in the unfenced areas. Their fencing is eight foot wire. This is representative of government success. More baloney than bread to put it on. :)

The fencing you have had a success with works for the short term and until other neighbors enter the fencing picture.
The more fencing that goes up the less effective it becomes when the whole story is considered. They will in fenced areas walk the edges. Fence damage for any reason makes holes where they re-enter their never forgotten feeding grounds.

Fifty years ago West Virginia was one of the first to use the hunting community effectively. The rest of the states watched in horror as they were sure it was the end of hunting. Even to this day that management practice largely worked. One could and still can shoot five or six doe. The remaining deer are well fed on land that has not been destroyed by the deer. The doe to buck ratio is very close to one to one. When the program started the doe to buck ratio was easily twenty or more to one and the gross weight of the average deer was ninety pounds or less. Today two hundred pound deer are not uncommon. The buck racks are beautiful compared to fifty years a go when spikes and small four pointed racks were common. However their more populated areas have the same over population of deer that many of us experience.

In addition the poaching community is greatly reduced. The less than honest meat shops that marketed the illegal deer have become nearly non-existent. Poaching cycles. As the people of the world become hungry unemployed and overtaxed poaching has increased. We have not seen this increase in poaching as of this day. We may in the future.

appreciate all the input.

I Just wanted to add some flowers. Is that so hard for the dang deer to understand? Unfortunately mom fell yesterday and broke her kneecap, so we won't be worrying about the plants much for now. Surgery this am expected. Gotta go figure out my plan.

Edit for new readers: The next post is helpful about deer but after that we go way off topic. Just letting you know, not much more deer advice to come here.

But then back to deer around June 20!

This message was edited Jun 17, 2010 8:09 AM

This message was edited Jun 22, 2010 1:16 PM

We use DeerAway to protect our ornamentals. It really works well and remains effective for quite a long time, even after rain. We also have an electric fence around our vegetable garden; it's three feet out from the regular fence, where the deer would have to set up to jump, and we've never had one come over.

Ouch, hope she heals fast Sally

Prayers for your mom and you, Sally. I hope the surgery has gone well.

I don't know why but we have very little trouble with the local deer herd. "Knock on Wood" They are here and sometimes they come into the yard to the bird feeders or drink from the pond but mostly they leave the plants alone.

It's that egg..emits some kind of radiation that the deer can sense. I'll take it off your hands.

LOL If I ever find another one like it I will make sure it gets to your house. LOL

Thanks Holly --you know I will cherish it ;0)

Diane, You do have a resident elk population in Va. They are at Defense Depot Richmond. They even traded a few with some other herd to improve the gene pool. Ric

losche! Waving from Lexington, we're neighbors!!!

Sally, sorry to hear about your Mom :( Hope all went well with her surgery. I can't add anything to what everyone has already told you. We can spray and put up cages around shrubs and they'll still find a way. We've actually been very fortunate (joining Holly and "knocking on wood") that they haven't destroyed any more than they have. We seem to have more problems with the damage the bucks do during rutting season than we do from their actual "foraging". I'm still convinced that the dogs (scent/barking) play a key part in keeping them away most of the time, even though they're not outside in the evening. We had a lot more damage when we were "dogless" for a couple of years but ever since Phoebe joined the family they don't seem to come "into" the gardens.

Holly, LOL, you could probably sell those blue eggs if you ever find a source for them! I'll be standing in line with missingrosie :)

My DH also has a deer stand in our woods and he tries to get one or two every year. Deer meat in the freezer compensates somewhat for the bother of keeping them away from our plants.

Ouch Sally realized that I missed your comment about your Mom. Hope she heals well and that all goes well with the surgery.

Sally your mom will be getting lots of flowers now that the deer won't get to. I hope she mends quickly.


Rcn48...just remember that the line forms behind me - I was there first!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the wishes. Surgery went fine and she was glad to get it over with. Now the reality will sink in, she is not going to hop up and start doing a jig. 4-6 weeks of immoblized in straight position., BUT she will be able to put her weight on it so I think she'll use a walker pretty well considering.

I always visit the shop where I bought the egg when we go to Duck. Last year they had some blue balls similar to my egg but I wasn't very impressed with them, they were too small and the glaze was much darker and they were more $$. I'm sure they would have looked nice in a different setting but not as a stand alone feature.

Good to hear things went well. When will she come home?

Surgery was just yesterday afternon, so I think she'll stay in a couple days. It's impossible to predict, they have their protocals. If discharged to home, I'll be busy beaver.

Sally, if you have any say in the walker she gets, see if you can get her one with a built in, flip down seat. Costco carries them. It will be so handy when she is able to get out and about to not have to worry about having a place for her to stop and rest when she gets tired.

Check out the second hand stores. We picked up a walker for Poppy for $4 while we were in Fl. LOL I have a working wheel chair sitting in my garage right now. Jamie picked it up from the side of the road, he equipped it with an appropriate IV bottle. Your Mom will have to get her own guy, though.

Holly, do you know Medicare will pay for a walker for him? And physical therapy if the doctor writes a prescription for it?

He really didn't need it. Ric picked it up thinking it might be useful and he uses it when he takes his daily exercise walks down the road in front of his house. No sidewalks in his development. It has wheels on the front and skid plates on the back and he goes at a pretty good clip. He said he wants it in case he loses his balance but really we didn't see any signs that he actually needed it.

Good for him he takes it just in case!!!!! There's a proactive guy.

Thanks to previous stuff we have a non rolling one and a wheel in the front one, but not a seat one. Can you beleive I actually took her to the hosp--she and I walked out, down a step and into the van with a walker, on a broken kneecap, 90 yrs old. Probably pointless and stupid but the ambo is such a rough ride. Must be all that going to school, knee high snow, uphill both ways.