Clematis IDs Please?

I have 3 Clems growing in my yard, planted by the former owner of my home. They're all 3 growing on these 5 ft. post trellis things (1 ft. square, black, iron). 2 of the three however, are far too large for these trellises.

We bought this house last fall, and being completely new to all things gardening, I was afraid that if I trimmed things back that shouldn't be, they would all die, so I didn't prune anything, including these Clems. They just stayed brown, crusty vines until spring when they started to green out again. So, now I'm uncertain if the 2 are so large because I didn't cut them back or if they would have gotten this big even if I'd cut them. It would help to know what they are to answer this question.

So I'm trying to ID all three, which bloomed at different times. One bloomed late April which is mid Spring for my zone.

This one is not too big for the trellis, well not as bad as the other 2 anyway. Anyone know what I have here?

Here's a close-up

#2 just bloomed this week (Mid-late May) which is late spring for my zone.

It's smaller-flowered than the first one I posted, but the plant is much taller, approximately 8 feet I'd say. This is one of 2 I have that has completely outgrown the trellis. I thought about cutting the top overgrowth off, but even before they bloomed, I could see that was where nearly all my buds were, and didn't want to lose all the flowers! So I just let it go.

This particular one is so large and heavy, it is constantly knocking the trellis over (even though it is staked into the ground) and I'm always having to pick it back up.

But here are the flowers, anyway, for help IDing it.

Sorry I took this picture at night, but this is the full plant. You can see it grew straight up the trellis and all the "extra" just flops over to the right.

And finally, here's the one growing on my mailbox, and it's so crazy you can hardly read my address number from the street. My husband comes home every day and says, "You need to trim that green monster-- I can barely check the mail without getting attacked!"

I would guess it is about 8 feet tall, too, and the flowers are about the same size as #2, but a much deeper shade of purple.

It also bloomed this week, although a day or two later than #2.

Here are two of the flowers, close-up.

One issue I've been considering is the fact that the one in my backyard (#1 above) that is not unruly-- this could just be because it grows in almost full shade and in a part of my yard that stays pretty moist most of the time. The other 2 get nearly full sun and are in dryer areas.

Any help you all can offer with these Clems I have is greatly appreciated!

Daisy

I can not find the tag for this clem.
Any one want to venture a guess for me?

Second view. It is about to open.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/go/55683/

'Duchess of Edinburgh'

So any idea as to what Daisylover's first clematis is?
I think we have the same. Rescued it from Lowe's last year for 25 cents.

The just opening flower in your first photo, Tex, reminds me of Nelly Moser this year. In former years she opened more normally but I loved the opening of the buds this year.

Maybe Nelly Moser is the one in the very first post here.

I'll add a photo of Nelly Moser in the next post.

Here it is in several stages at once.

Pirl - Nelly Moser was what I came up too when I was browsing clematis in Plant Files. I wasn't exactly sure though.
Your first photo - that's exactly what it looked like when the first bloom opened. Odd, but I too like the curling effect It has grown twice as tall and branched out since I took that photo a few weeks ago. No new flowers yet. But I'm glad I know what it is now.

The color can be different depending on whether it's a new or old bloom or if it's in sun or more shade. I'll check for a photo collage showing it.

The flowers bleach out with age and or sun.

Regarding Nelly Moser for my first clem, I have some questions. Mine did not look like the one in your picture, pirl, when it was first blooming out. I agree the petals look the same, but my stamens were not as dark maroon as yours. And the height on the info page about Nelly Moser throws me off, too.

The 3 I've narrowed it down to are Nelly Moser, Dr. Ruppel, and C. W. Dowman. The height is the main difference between the 3. Nelly is 10-12 ft, Ruppel is 8-10 ft, and Dowman is 6-8. Now, my particular plant is about 6 feet tall, but it's so hard to tell when 2 cultivars of the same plant look so drastically similar in every other way. Dowman (at least in the pictures from PF) looks pretty much identical to mine, and the height seems right, BUT I don't know for sure because my plant is growing in nearly complete shade. I know clems like their feet in the shade and their heads in the sun, and my clems that are in more sun than the top one grew much better (taller and more blooms) than this one, but because the shade could be affecting its growth habit, it makes it hard to nail down a cultivar. Any words of wisdom about this?

And any suggestions for the other 2 clems I posted would be greatly appreciated, too. They seem to be more "simple" or commonplace to me, so I was really surprised no one had tackled them with a guess yet.

Thanks!

I don't know your #2.

#3 (the purple one) could easily be Jackmanii.

I have Dr. Ruppel so I'll rule that out for the one in question and I don't know C. W. Dowman. Did you check "Clematis on the Web" for that one?

The height really can be thrown off due to shade as the plants try and reach for the sun. If I had to take my choice of sun or dappled shade for all clematis I'd choose dappled shade. A few blistering hot days of sun can fade the blossoms too quickly.

Thanks for the response!

In the future (hopefully before next spring) I plan to move my shaded one into at least some more sun. Where it currently is located, it doesn't even qualify as "dappled". My #2 gets shade in the morning and sun in the afternoon, and #3, the one on the mailbox gets full sun from the time it comes up till it sets in the evening. #3 is growing the best for me, right now, with tons of flowers and still more buds to open yet, but we haven't had our real scorching days yet, like we get in August, so I'll have to see how it fares.

Thank you for the suggestions, and for ruling our Dr. Ruppel.

I had never heard of "Clematis on the Web" until now, and thank you for the resource-- it looks like a great one! Still there, C. W. Dowman and Nelly Moser look so much alike to me. And again it's hard to tell if my plant is showing it's "true colors" since it's in so much shade, but the colors were never as dark pink as Nelly seems to be. Mine was a pale pink, almost white on the edges, with more of a purple stripe in the center, and my stamens had some maroon tips, but were mostly that yellow/white color. It bloomed much earlier than my other 2 clems, early to mid-April, which surprised me because of it's shady location, so I tend to think it is one of the "early flowering" ones, since it bloomed early even in the shade.

It's also difficult for me to get information from UK sites. I think "Clematis on the Web" must be euro of some sort because they measure height in meters, and if that is true, I'm never sure how to equate their bloom time to ours. If it says Jun/July/Aug there, what does that mean for me, in the center of the U.S.?

I think at this point, my best bet would be to move the plant, wait until next spring, see how it behaves in more light, and with better trellises, mine are beautiful but obviously too short for the plants, especially 2 and 3.

I want so much to know exactly what they are, and I hate having to wait!!! I'm sure I'm not alone.

Thanks again!

daisylover, just to chime in with my own two cents, Nelly Moser's widely available, which would make it the most likely candidate, and what's more I think it's often recommended for shady areas, which may be why the previous owners put it in its current spot. Good luck with your new garden!

Hm, that's the first I heard of a shade-loving clem, and I agree that would make me choose it for that spot, but I contacted the previous owner and she said (although it's been a while since they moved out) that she thought it was a sweet autumn clematis-- but that's waaay off!

Thank you for the suggestion. I'm looking closely at Nelly Moser and am pretty much convinced it's either that or C. W. Dowman.

I agree with wickerparker. Most people start with the more easily available clematises rather than the hard to find.

Here's a site for clem's for shady sites and north walls:
http://store.chalkhillclematis.com/clematisforshade.html

I can't get past the really dark burgundy anthers (stamens?) I see on Nelly Moser. Of all the pictures I've looked at of Nelly, I have yet to see anthers that are as pale with just burgundy tips like mine are. My stamens look identical to Bees Jubilee in the link pirl provided above.