I love, love, love Back To Nature Cotton Burr Compost

A few of us were discussing Back to Nature Cotton Burr Compost on another thread and it was suggested I make a new post to tell you about it. I buy bagged compost for mulching around my plants and amending my soil for beds and fixing my "doggie spots" in my lawn.

For years I used Mushroom compost from a local mushroom farm and I'd have healthy looking plants for a season or two, then they'd decline and either just look bad and not grow or they'd die. I know I have crummy sticky clay soil (our lot was filled in with clay to raise it) but could never figure out why my plants never thrived even after being continuously composted and fed. My MIL belongs to our local garden club and they had a guest speaker from Prairie Organics (.com) who runs an organic gardening/lawn business. He said to never use mushroom compost because it contains high levels of salt and even though your plants may thrive a season or two the salts will build up in the soil and make things worse. The use of gypsum will counteract this effect.

I picked up a brochure from a local nursery about Nature's Blend Cotton Burr Compost and checked out their website and asked around on the compost forum here. People heard of it but never used it. I found it at a different garden center at a pretty good price (although more pricy than a Home Depot manure) and decided to use it to amend an area I wanted to plant my Heuchera in. I tilled about 5 bags of the plain cotton burr compost in about a 10' x 10' area and planted it in Oct. '08. Those plants are growing and thriving and I've only lost 2 plants in that area - and if you grow Heuchera you know they can be some finicky plants.

So really, I do love, love, love this compost! If it can fix my crappy clumpy sticky salty soil AND make my plants thrive I'm happy girl. They have a Rose Bed and Perennial Bed Amendment (I understand it's the same product just bagged differently) that my roses love and I use on my clematis. They have Natures Blend with alfalfa and humate that I use on my lawn (although it was suggested by another DG member - nutsaboutnature - that with the alfalfa the clematis would like that). That goes on my "doggie bare spots" and I'm trying to fix two lawn areas that are compacted and hard. I recently went to a seminar by a Back To Nature Rep at Pesche's Garden Center and he said if you put 2" down and till it down 6" on clay soil, you will have nice crumbly soil the following year.

No, I don't work for Back To Nature or am getting any benefits of any kind - really! I just really love this product and thought I'd share my thoughts about it with all you Midwest gardeners! The one and only drawback I found with this product is if it gets wet - which all the top bags get from rain is that it stinks and stinks bad. Like open the car windows, I can't hold my breath any longer - kind of bad! That goes away once you open the bags and use it. You won't have a stinky manure smelling yard.

Locally, I've found the best price for it at Meinkes Garden Center on Touhy in Niles. 2 cu. ft. bag Cotton Burr Compost (coarse texture) - $6.75 and the Rose Bed and Natures Blend $7.50 for a 1 cu. ft. bag and that's a nice fine texture. It's a nice family owned and run place. Just beware the parking is not fun there!

Happy Gardening Everyone!

Cheryl

Hi Cheryl,
Thanks for starting this thread!

It will be interesting to find out whether other members have used Back to Nature Cotton Burr Compost & if so, on what.

I think it was grrrlgeek that mentioned the alfalfa for clematis. I'd love to grow clematis, but so much of our yard is shaded by large trees. If I can ever find a good spot I now know a great compost to use on them!

Now if the rain would ever stop I might be able to get started planting all the perennials I've got sitting in tiny pots everywhere.

This message was edited May 12, 2010 10:25 PM

Thanks for the correction and sorry about that grrrlgeek, I apologize! I just looked at the 10 day forecast and it looks like rain again Monday and Thursday (or so they say) but warmer weather. At least it looks like the annuals can safely be planted.

I plan to amend a shade bed on my west side when things dry out. I have 6 Itea that are hanging on by a thread. I am so tempted to dig them up and throw them out but I'm going to add alot of the plain cotton burr and replant them. That will be the true test if they can be revived by the compost.

interesting as I'm going to go try and bag to see about it. I'm a big time mushroom compost lover.

Janet

Sure sounds like some good stuff. I'll have to see if I can find any around here. Thanks for the info!

Correction on my initial post... the website of the guy who spoke at my MIL's garden club was from Pure Prairie Organics. He's got some interesting stuff to read through.

http://pureprairieorganics.com/

Janet - I used Mushroom compost for as long as I can remember - it was such an inexpensive source of compost for me. I have some Blue Paradise Phlox that would start out growing so well in the spring, I'd mulch them and then they'd just start yellowing out and start getting spotted and crispy - just looked terrible all summer. I'd get tiny blooms on them. I dug them all up last year and replanted using cotton burr, they're growing great now. Same with Sparkling Burgundy Heuchera. They only had 3 long leaves and never bloomed. Did the same with them and they've grown alot and now blooming. I feel like I've FINALLY found the right products to solve my problems. Gypsum and Back to Nature and of course organic fertilizer.
Here's a picture of the phlox when they looked bad. It's not the best picture as I took it because it was the best bloom I got on these plants - but take a look at the leaves. They amounted to a couple of stems only. When the rain stops, I'll have to get a picture of them now.

I picked up a couple of bags today and unfortunately they are the smelly kind. Like really aromatic mushroom compost. Somewhere on the website it says that if demand is great, they may bag compost that is done composting but hasn't been kept laying around for the smell to wear off.

grrlgeek - I didn't know that! Hopefully that smell won't last. I just had that one bag of the regular stuff that smelled strong like cow manure, definitely not like aromatic mushroom compost. I found that very odd. I certainly would have preferred the mushroom compost smell though! I certainly hope you like it as well as I do. Are you amending or using it to mulch around stuff?

Both. The areas in the front that I want to mulch will have to have other mulch on top b/c of the neighbors too. Some areas in the back need to have something worked in, it is such muddy clay.

I read about that compost somewhere and I think they said that it comes for Texas??? if it is the one I read about. If so, and you are finding it works well, I wonder where I could find it in Wisconsin!

Will have to do some research on I guess.

Hi cececoogan,
Here is the link for Back To Nature Cotton Burr Compost.

http://www.backtonaturecompost.com

Their website is very informative & also has a section that helps you to locate their products. I also found by calling local nurseries, that some that weren't even listed on the website carried the compost.

This thread was continued from another thread for Chicago area gardeners. Medinac was the one that told us all about her experiences with this compost & got us all excited. If you find it & like it, she's the one that deserves a big Thank You.

I'm going to try some both in a new bed I plan to put in & as a top-dressing for current beds. I would also like to try some of the "Blend" that they recommend for lawns, but it will have to be for really bad areas since our lawn is about 15,000 sq. ft.

I googled them and sent an email for where I might purchase it here. I am really excited that I was not the only one who had heard of it and yes the website was from Tx. Very excited about that.

Hi everyone,
My husband & I will be digging a new garden bed out of some of our lawn tomorrow. We're going to buy some Cotton Burr Compost & till it in. We also plan to buy some so I can lightly mulch some existing beds (with a little wood mulch on top).

I'm wondering about how long it takes for the smellier (is that even a word?) bags to dissipate. Medinac, you mentioned you've had some "aromatic" bags in the past & grrrlgeek, you just purchased some stinky ones.

Any input would be helpful, mostly because of neighbors, although I don't see it as a problem. I'm just curious.
Thanks

Mine were fine smell-wise after I took them out of the car. You may want to be careful with that tiller though. The bags I used were full of sticks and what must've been chunks of cotton burrs. I'll take a picture tomorrow of what I mean. Fine for some applications, maybe not so much for others. The Nature's Blend, on the other hand, was very nice. We'll see what the plants think.

Nuts - Same experience too, after you get them out of the car and especially when using - after the bags are open and the stuff is down there's no smell. Even that really stinky manure smelling bag -after it was down, no smell. Did you work on your new bed?

grrrlgeek - I've never had any sticks in my bags and the cotton burrs were mostly all broken up, you could tell they were burrs but separated like they fell apart. I wonder whats up with that, why you got so many sticks? Maybe they're cranking the stuff out faster and it's not composting as long as usual? I'm interested to see your picture. I'm planning on tilling a bunch of it in today and hope I don't have the same experience! Yes, the Nature's Blend has a really nice texture

Thanks grrrlgeek & medinac.

That's good to know about the smell. As I mentioned last night, It's only because we have neighbors that I would even care, although I really shouldn't worry about it since I have periodically gotten a whiff of manure.

I guess we'll have to check the texture and, if there are a lot of sticks, work with it a little differently. The Nature's Blend sounds great, but it is more expensive so I have to keep that in mind. Also, at least for this trip to buy it, we were planning to go to Countryside Nursery in Crystal lake. They're much closer for us and the price is still very reasonable, but they only have the regular Cotton Burr. In fact, I think Meinke's may be the only place around that also has other formulas so that may have to wait for a day when we aren't trying to accomplish as much.

I thought it would be nice, eventually, to try some of the Nature's Blend, particularly on the bad areas of our lawn. I'd love to do the whole lawn, but our yard is very large.

We're going to make the bed today. My husband is off today and he can rent a sod cutting/lifting tool that makes part of the job a lot easier. He's done it both ways and the sod cutting tool definitely makes the slowest part of the job a lot less back-straining.

Grrrlgeek, where did you end up going to buy your compost? Did you go to Meinke's or did you find another nursery with the Nature's Blend?

I'll let you know how it went.

I saw some cotton burr compost at Alsip a couple of weeks ago. I haven't tried it yet but these posts are making me think I should give it a try. I have one bed in particular that could definitely use a boost. It got lots of coffee grounds, super manure (from Menard's) and spot composting of veggies scraps but it's still not as good as I'd like for as heavily planted as it is.

Here's a picture of my phlox that I was speaking about above. I replanted using the regular cotton burr compost. Keep in mind there were only 2-4 stems on each plant and they were always yellowed and then some leaves crisped so I'm very happy with their progress!

About the Nature's blend for the lawn - we had a low area and we had a landscaper put peat on top of the grass and seeded (peat was his suggestion - I wanted compost). What a huge mistake. It's a shadier area and we had pretty good grass growing until we had this done. I've fertilized the heck out of it, I use Ringer Lawn Restore, and it's come back fairly well except certain spots just wouldn't fill in. I sprinkled the Nature's Blend over this whole area by hand and used a bit more in the bare areas. It's beginning to fill in now. I'm thinking if you use a little in spring and fall it will help it along alot. I'm also trying a new lawn fertilizer by Dr. Earth. Again, expensive but is supposed to be fantastic according to Pesche's. It's got good beneficial bacteria in it and micorrhizae. I've used it on that part of the lawn too. I've only used one application so the jury is still out. After I run out of my Espoma products for fertilizing (which I do really like) I'm going to try the Dr. Earth fertilizers to see if I notice any difference.

I HAVE got to get me some and FAST!!!!! I can get it in New Berlin, Sussex and Oconomowoc. When do I ever get to those places? Oh yeah Oconomowoc is just before my D's house.


I'm a-gonna-get-me-some................

I've already gone through 4 bags of Espoma this spring. I saw Dr. Earth at Alsip Nursery also and was wondering about it. Looks like there's quite a line of products. Haven't seen it yet anywhere else. Interested to see how it works compared to Espoma. This was my first spring using Espoma (other than Hollytone) so I'm curious to see how all of my existing plantings do this summer.

Cece - I don't thing you'll be sorry is you get and use it. Let us know what you think.

Cindy - I started out using the Espoma Hollytone and then got the Rosetone and then the Planttone. I really like their products. Between the Back to Nature Rose Bed amendment and the Rosetone, my shrub roses and clems are doing really well. There is quite alot of Dr. Earth products and I don't know which I'll use. The guy at Pesche's here where they sell it is especially helpful. They had a seminar with the founder but I missed it and regret it now.

Here's my current project to redo using the compost. It will truly be an experiment because these Itea are in bad shape. I understand they like more acidic soil so I'm not sure they will make a come back well because I'm not going to mess with trying to fix a "rebounding" acid to alkaline soil.

Does the cotton burr compost have a lower pH? Having never tested my soil along the house foundation (cement block), I sometimes wonder if, over time, the higher alkalinity doesn't moderate somewhat according to the soil further away from the cement. Of course, you have the sidewalk and the foundation that may keep the pH higher.

Hi everyone.
Exciting that you all have so many garden projects going on!

The Phlox look great, medinac - amazing turnaround.

I finally have a little time to update on the new bed we're creating in the back yard. For starters, it's not finished, yet. Also, we've decided to make it small since we want to make sure it does well where we're putting it. It's much easier to increase the size if we like it than to decrease it if we don't.

It was just one of too many projects Thursday that my husband had to work on with only one day off this week. We started in the afternoon, got it quickly layed out and he removed all the sod. Half way through removing the sod it started raining, then pouring. That was the end of it for that day. It rained, extremely heavy at times, that night and all the next day.

Now comes the part that I'm hoping the Cotton Burr, shredded leaves and organic top soil will help with. The drainage in that area is so poor, that the bed became a tiny pond & has been slowly - no, make that very, very slowly - draining (love that clay!).

We're hoping to finish it on Wednesday, his next day off. We had considered adding a little builder's sand, but have read both pros & cons so we probably won't. A couple of years ago my husband built a long narrow raised bed in a formerly soggy area along a neighbors fence and we added lots of organic material. It has wonderful drainage in addition to being soft & easy to plant in.

Most of our lawn could use a top-dressing of the Nature's Blend, but with an approximately 15,000+ sq. ft. lawn, the cost would be prohibitive.

I still have a lot of perennials waiting in pots to be planted, but between the rain & this unseasonably hot weather they continue to sit. Maybe tomorrow. I gave them all a mild dose of fertilizer yesterday to help them out till I can plant.

Gosh, I wish I could remember where I saw or read that sand + clay = concrete. I read too much stuff and can't remember where I read it! So, I think I'd skip the sand. It seems to make sense to add sand to help break it up but so does the sand + clay. I've added perlite to my soil to help with drainage. But, once it's in there it's there for life. That stuff doesn't break down but that was ok with me. I'm going out right now to work on my bed too. I was all ready to start on it the other day when the rain came too. It's now dry enough to work on. I'm not thrilled doing it in this hot weather but it's gotta get done!

Cindy - I haven't found that my soil PH is any different no matter where it's at. I can't find any info on what the PH of cotton burr is. They just say that it helps neutralize PH.

And, my Phlox WERE looking great but they're starting to yellow again at the bottom. I don't know what's with them! I don't know if it's the particular cultivar - Blue Paradise (Paradise Blue, whatever) or if it's just not uptaking iron, too much alkalinity. They are frustrating me to no end! Next I guess I'll get some Ironite and try that. They do like a more acid soil I know. I think I used the Hollytone on them??? Errrr!

Well, off to sweat now!

I've been reading lots & lots in the Soil & Compost Forums over the last few days (very addicting). Several posts referred to the "sand + clay = concrete". Also I have read it before. Though some say "builders" sand is better, we have pretty much ruled out sand since there are so many other great amendments.

The perlite idea is something I have used in containers, but it would probably require an awful lot for a bed. We haven't decided against it, but the Soil & Compost forums along with their links have given me so many great ideas that I'd like to try along with the Cotton Burr.

Sorry your Phlox aren't doing so well. We've had a lot of rain & now the heat. How are your other plants doing with this weather?

By the way, have you checked the Phlox Forums? What about starting a thread to see if others have the same problem?

Medinac, just out of curiosity I looked around a little in DG & found a link that may (or may not) be useful to you. There are probably a bunch more.

It was a thread about yellowing leaves. It was suggested, just like you had mentioned, a possible deficiency in iron. Someone said that a nursery guy had recommended "Green Sand". In one case the problem was with Rose of Sharon, but they said it can be used on any type of plant to add iron. You use about a handfull & it should be available at nurseries.

I saw a video last year where an expert in Heirloom Tomatoes recommended Green Sand when planting tomatoes.

Just in case you're interested, the link for this thread is:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/58480/?hl=phlox+yellowing=leaves

It's a very old thread, but I bet there are more like that. If not, there should be.

Most likely you've already searched DG and I apologize if it seems like I'm being pushy since it's not at all my intent. You've been so helpful with the Cotton Burr that I would love to be of help, if I can.

I have clay here with a thin layer of fine silt on top. One thing that did seem to help was digging in some wood mulch. It helped create air pockets and didn't seem to pack so easily. I used mini nuggets at the time - easier to dig in than the shredded stuff although that would work as well. Might need a little extra nitrogen dug in as well for the decomposing process.
I have never really tried phlox (other than divaricata and stolonifera because of my shade) as I fear the mildew. My Monarda 'Mahogany' gets it but I keep it anyway because it goes well with my daylily 'Raspberry Pixie'.

here's the pic of the cbc i got w/all the sticks. didn't get it up b4 elbow surgery fri and have been on pain pills since, in the lower left corner you can see what i think is a cotton burr, not soft and crumbly at all.

ps the lighter colored bits are straw and safflower seeds, everything else is from the cbc



This message was edited May 26, 2010 2:33 PM

I think it's pretty cool that medinac is getting so many people interested in Cotton Burr Compost. We can all report our progress with it.

I've been spending quite a bit of time recently reading & learning in the Soil & Composting forum. I'm getting totally hooked on all the different ways of composting.

CindyMzone5, that's a good idea with the wood mulch. I suppose some grass clippings might help for the extra nitrogen. There's certainly plenty of those at this time of year.

Oh my gosh, grrrlgeek - I hope you're all right & not in too much pain. Please take care of yourself. Don't rush things. The last thing you need is to mess up the surgery.

Thanks for posting the pic. That really is pretty "chunky", but it probably won't matter once it's mixed into the soil with shredded leaves & other things. If there are too many big pieces we'll just mix it in by hand. It would probably be fine like that for mulching around plants. One of the things I've learned from the Composting Forum is that alot of gardeners will use their home-made compost while it's still pretty chunky, rather than waiting till it totally breaks down.

Nuts - That soil and compost forum is really helpful and that's probably where I read about sand + clay. And don't think you're ever being pushy in suggesting stuff to me! I'm always happy to get advice and links to info. Thank you for taking the time to poke around for me and my problem with my !$**&^ phlox! I did know about Greensand and had posted pictures and asked for help with the Phlox last year. I had read years ago to toss in a handful of Greensand when planting and even when fertilizing. I did that last spring and of course ran out of it and completely forgot to do it this year! Speaking of forgetting...I amended that whole stinking bed yesterday and FORGOT to add the perlite, dang!! I bought this HUGE bag last year because I have 2 large beds to do and one maybe 10 x 10 area in another. The small area only took the small bag from Home Depot - don't know the wt. but it was probably 12" x 16". I was winging it on how much to use and didn't want to go too crazy. That really gets me mad I forgot. Must've been the heat. Now I'll have lots of perlite left over so if anyone wants some, please let me know - otherwise I'll give the rest of it to a flower grower.

Cindy - I think you're right about the wood chips. I get the free stuff from our local tree trimmer/remover and we put it in the back where no grass grows. The dogs runs back there after squirrels and such and those chips get buried in the soil and then I leave the leaves on there over winter. After years of doing that, that soil is just as nice as nice can be. In fact I pulled up 2 Butterfly bushes that won't grow nice for anything (the other bed left to amend) and plopped them in back there. Those guys are growing as nice as nice can be, better already than at any time in their old home!
Paradise Blue Phlox are supposed to be mildew resistent. I wouldn't know since I've never been able to get them to grow nice enough. I won't give up on them because those blooms are just such an awesome color - even if they're little! I love Monarda. I don't have any because they multiply to darned fast so I go to my neighbor's for my Monarda "fix". I do get jealous because she gets the hummingbird much more often than I!!!

grrrlgeek - I'm so sorry that you had to have elbow surgery. That cannot be fun, especially at gardening time. No fun at all! Your cbc looks a little chunkier than normal and larger sticks than I've experienced - I've gotten sticks but like small pieces of twigs. But the regular cotton burr compost is a larger texture and you will see some cotton burr pieces in there and sometimes even some cotton. The Nature's Blend is very fine, soft and crumbly but a smaller bag at a larger price. I don't think it matters either that it's chunky cuz it should all break down just fine when it's mixed it.

I didn't check out the price on the cbc when I was at Alsip. How pricey is this stuff? Haven't looked for it elsewhere but then I wasn't focused on it.
grrrlgeek - Hope your recovery is nice and speedy. Ouch.
nuts... - Sometimes when breaking up the clay, the chunkier the better. I also tried sand at first but a) didn't notice any real improvement; b) read that the amount of sand that has to be added is pretty high; and c) not using enough just results in concrete. Got any leaf mold? That's great too.
Ugh - off topic - the floating cottonwood seeds are driving me crazy this week. Looks like a feather pillow has been burst. It's miserable with the heat and humidity this week and sweating in the garden and then these things float by and stick to my skin.

Cindy, check out the Back To Nature website for dealers then call around since prices can vary quite a bit. The best price for the regular Cotton Burr seems to be around $6.75 - $6.99 for 2 cu. ft., but I found nurseries charging as much as $10.00!! I also found a few places not on the list of dealers that also carry it.

http://www.backtonaturecompost.com

Medinac, I wonder if you can "scratch" the greensand into the surface. I've added perlite to existing beds in a similar fashion. I also add it to containers if I'm not using potting mix or if I am, but the potting mix doesn't already have any.

Is that what all that "cotton" is flying around?? I've never really been sure. I thought it may have been a "dying breath" from the remaining dandelions. And, yes, they stick to everything including all my flowers. I can't even open my car windows without it flying in.

Yep, I scratch the fertilizer and greensand into the surface so it helps to get down there. I still had a couple Heuchera to add to that newly composted bed so I added perlite then - a little after the fact but better than nothing I guess.

Those Cottonwood tree seeds are the worst - well I guess I should say right up there with the Maples. I've been outside since Wednesday working alot and my eyes and throat are just dry and itchy from the stuff. The neighbor across the street has alot of them and my yard is just full of the "snow". I think it's just about done now though and that's the last of it. May is always so difficult, I always count the seeds.... Maple seeds, "Wormy things", "Round disc thingys", "Spears", then Cottonwoods and then we're done! I don't even bother to powerwash the patio until everything's done falling. Now I have to start pulling the sprouting Maple seeds. It's never-ending!

Even though the cottonwood seeds are just about done flying, they germinate into lots of little green plants. And they don't need the rain to do it. I'm going to be scraping the soil in the beds now after just planting my annuals. A big pain.

Cindy - You're right! I remember that happening last year! I forgot about that! Add it to the list! Did you get all your stuff from Sunrise? I think I want to go back in July and use the coupons. I had my eye on some nice Heuchera.

Had to postpone trip until June due to scheduling conflicts. Hope there's still a decent selection. Of course, I'm creating dilemmas for myself as I'm running out of places to plant things unless I pull out less desirable stuff (which I do find difficult to do). "Had" to buy a sad looking, badly treated Salix 'Hakuro Nishiki' at Lowe's for $2.50 from the "distressed" rack. I think I've found a home for it.
Those cottonwood seeds have already sprouted here in about 4 days. Ugh.

My eyes were burning so bad yesterday while driving that I had to close the windows & run the air (pollen?).

I bought some Cotton Burr yesterday. My husband was off & he layed out a Blue Tarp in in my trunk so I could wrap it around the bags creating an "envelope". I picked up the compost while he started the heavy work of digging & turning the new bed. With this on & off rain it was still too wet to till so he had to do it by hand with a shovel - Ugh!

I was expecting the compost to really smell, but apparently I got some that wasn't too bad & the tarp probably also helped.

We weren't really able to put it on the bed yet. We added leaves after he turned the soil then he turned it again and left it to sit overnight to dry some. If it's dry enough when he gets home from work he'll try to mix in some of the Cotton Burr.

We didn't open the bags so I don't know how chunky it is yet. I'll let you know about that after I've seen the contents of all the bags.

nuts... - I think IL has gotten far more rain than us in NW IN. DS moved into rental house and promptly started working on long-neglected small garden bed. He's crazy to start growing veggies and blueberries (don't know where that comes from as he's always hated "yard" work). He did stick with it though and turned it all over by hand. It was pretty wet (low-lying area) and full of weeds. He turned it over again, adding whatever veggie and yard waste he could find. He doesn't have the budget for soil amendments so he's making do with what he can find. Helped him plant his veggies earlier this week.
I'm sure all of your hard works is going to pay off big time when you're done. I'm interested in hearing about the cbc. I did use some "super" composted manure from Menard's last year. According to the bag, it had higher nutrient values but I can't figure out how they're elevated over regular bagged composted manure.

Cindy - I know, I keep telling myself I have to stop but then I see those "must-haves". I still haven't found permanent homes for other things I already have - but I will! I love the Salix you bought, I would've gotten that one too! I just got my annuals finished being planted yesterday...way late for me but the weather hasn't been cooperating and other stuff took priority - too much to be done at once or when on time limits. I hope your son's veggies and berries do well. Nothing like veggies from your own garden. It's nice to hear there may be hope for my kids...they hate yard work too - ok, well any kind of work for that matter!

Nuts - All I gotta say is you know it's true love when your husband will dig your garden for you by hand! It has been wet...just when it dries out, if you don't get that opportunity, it's lost with more rain. I just pulled some Heuchera out because they were getting too much sun, they were clumpy with clay too. I put them in the new bed so I hope they do better there. Now I have to go and amend that soil again because I want to put something else in there. This clay soil just really stinks! I think I'll take your advice Cindy and throw some leaf humus in there too. I don't want to till it because I noticed lots of big fat worms....at least their on the job helping!