General Discussions - 2010 - Chapter 30

Let's start a new Chapter.

Happy B-Day Jeanette!

KR

And many more!!!!

Thank you Kent & Marti. To celebrate tomorrow I am having my hair done. LOL, just to plant my tomato seeds!

Thanks.

And Happy Birthday to Russ!! His birthday is the day after mine. Tuesday.

Sigh. I can't get to the last part of this thread anymore....hope I didn't miss any vital information....or fun....

Went ahead and bought 2 additional berry plants, boysenberry and blackberry. Thanks Jnette abo9ut reading up, I knew blueberries are acid loving, so will plant in different spot. I may use the fence line between amicable neighbor to plant so we can share. Will have to make the wire baskets for the planting holes against those darn gophers. You are right about invasiveness, I have read so much about butterfly bushes being invasive, mostly from NW'ers. Mine are not in the least and, in fact, one seems not to be coming back at all and another only has growth on half the bush. I figured if they were invasive in the NW, then, even though they are supposed to be drought tolerant, would grow even more with lots of water (like rain, huh?). But no, just weeds growing nearby. The one that has no new growth was one of my big ones (of the 4). I did not trim the other big one as far down as recommended and it is heartily getting new foliage. It is the only one that has never lost all it's leaves.

qg, I need to tell you too since you mention having gophers, That 2 years in a row I lost my blackberry bushes because I found them lying next to where they had been planted and the roots were gone. They had been eaten off. Don't know what else would have done it other than something underground.

Catmad, Chapter 29, just for you. http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1069846/

Thanks Jnette. Have seen that, had that problem with many different plants, lastly with 2 oleander plants. Who knew that although the leaves are toxic to humans, horses and goats, the roots can be eaten by gophers and they can go on to demolish more plants!

OK, I put a couple plants into the bales yesterday. First ones. Even though these were tiny root balls from small 6 pak, it was a challenge to make a hole big enough. I used a spade, but it was not one of those with a serrated edge. I went back and re-read the entries from 2-24 about using a pry bar, will look for one of those. Since my little germination project is not very successful yet I bought a tomato plant in a 6 in pot, plus I have a couple plants that did germinate AND grow that have bigger root balls. If it was so difficult to make a hole for those tiny broccoli & brussels sprouts plants, how do you squeeze a bigger one in? I put some home made compost around the ones I did get into the straw.

Oh, nini you had made a comment about not using peat pots. You are right, they are the pits and falsely advertised. I use peat 'pods' to start the seeds in. They look like pucks, then when you soak them the peat fluffs up in little net pots. The roots break through the net just fine, but I still tear it as I transplant.

Here is a photo of the bales before planting. I have 16 and apparently room for more as I have more soaker hose length left. Think I will put some of my pots at end of bales. This is on the SW side of house and looking straight back is my composting area. Since sun will come from top and left of picture, I guess the tomatoes, cuke and beans that grow up and need support should be in the bales on the right so as not to shade the other plants.

qg, if your bales are that tight still, why not just use the tomatoes in the 6 packs and put some compost up to the top 2 leaves? Put the plant in as far in as you can get it and then pile the compost up on it.

What kind of tomato did you get in the 6 inch pot? Maybe you should just plant it in a big pot on your deck, patio, or whatever? If you are having that much trouble planting in your bales I would use the smaller plants.

Have you been soaking your bales good? Was the bonemeal all you used on them, and just once? May not have been enough?

I did not use the bonemeal, since I was not hurrying things along. It has been 4.5 weeks now since I got the first 11 bales and 2.5 weeks for the other 5. When it is not raining, I water them most every day. There are a couple that are much further along as these had gotten wet before we bought them. I was not very successful in the size or volume of tomatoes I had last year, all in pots. I looked at so many different tomatoes at the nursery and celebrity comes to mind, but don't think that is right. I'll have to check outside tomorrow. The low for Sat is predicted to be 39 (we have had 27 to 36 degrees the last week and a half), then we should be having more 40's. We have cool nights in summer till around end of July or August. We had our first 100 degrees last year in April. We are all over the place. I was hoping to grow those maters from seed, but maybe I need plan B! LOL

Rain will not get down into the bales. They need to be soaked to decompose. That is your goal. Not total decomposition, but a good start. Sounds like what you are looking for is what the ones that started out wet before you got them. Your lows are much colder than I would be planting my seedlings out here. We are running about the same as you are right now and I have not even planted my seeds yet.

Your being in CA I expected that you were planting in warmer weather. Sorry, maybe someone else needs to jump in here. Kent, Russ, . . . . . .

Believe me, we have had soaking rains and I have soaked them the days it does not rain. I only have winter veggies planted, broccoli and brussels sprouts 2 ea in the bales and the others in pots. The tomato plant is sheltered at night and the other veggie starts are still in the house. Daytime temps have been in the 60's and will be in mid 70's next week with nights going up to mid 40's next week too. We should be generally out of the cold nights, but, like everywhere else, one never can count on the weather.

When I lived on the coast we had much milder weather. Cool summers and warmer winters. Now, living on the other side of the coastal mtns, we have HOT summers and cold winter nights (nothing like other parts of the country though). I like the cold weather, but prefer the coast (duh) in summer.

quiltygirl, I had a heck of a time getting my tomatoes in the bales too. And, my bales have been sitting back there for over 4 months. The biggest plants I could get into them were from the 4" pots. I almost got the sawzall out for the plants from the gallon pots but I decided to just drop those big ones in the dirt instead.

Believe it or not, last year we tried the chain saw. It didn't work any better. That was because my sister had given me some tomato plants tht were in 6 inch pots and were huge. Had tomatoes on them. I told her that from now on I would do my own plants which I plant when they are in the 3 inch pots. But, when I finally got hers in the bales, I did have ripe tomatoes on the 4th of July.

My bales are purring along nicely anywhere from 80 - 100 degrees.

Crock pot method is working nicely.

Frames definitely helping maintain the heat and moisture.

Well Gang, everyone that is having trouble with their bales, shall we attack? What can we do about kent?? A couple hold him down while we burn his bales? LOL,

:-)

His won't burn, remember he said they are holding moisture.

Going back and reading past posts, I decided I would have to use an additive with the watering. Still cool and blustery today (61), but have some mid to high 70s coming. Last night I found a bag of blood meal in my supplies and spread that around before watering. Looked for Ammonium Nitrate today and did not find any tried Lowes and the Sod/Turf store. Ended up getting a lawn fertilizer that is 29-0-4 with the 29 being Nitrate. Spread that out today before watering. Even with our wind, weather has been cool enough to not be too drying for bales. I can see now this is not a sport for areas in a drought or in water restrictions. At the beginning I was thinking it would be less expensive than using big pots and buying all the potting soil. Now, not so much. What with buying bails, urea, cost of using more water and more fertilizer, it is not cheap. Oh to be able to just plant in the ground AND reap a harvest before those little gophers.

I just put mine out today, do I need to water them every day? I watered with a hand held hose, is that not enough for them? I also put on some fish emulsion after I watered.
C

You know I read some posts on here again and am none to happy with myself. I bought straw bales, was I supposed to buy hay?
C

WATERING BALES 101

Regardless of your location, all you have to do is water the bales down good the first day or two until you see some runoff out of the bottom.

Take your time.

Continue to keep the bales moist.

Conditions in Adak, Alaska will differ from those in Miami, Florida, so just monitor your bales and water as necessary.

Don't depend on a sprinkle of rain to do the job, but you won't need to dig a new well just to have a bale garden, either.

PREPARING YOUR BALES 101

If you have at least 3 - 4 weeks before you plant your bale garden, then I'd just forget about adding any nitrogen source. The natural decomposition process will work just fine.

If, for some reason, you are on a short time-table, then adding the right kind of nitrogen source to the bales spread over a few days interval seems to help speed up the initial "cooking"/decomposing process.

The "right" kind of nitrogen is anything that is readily soluble in water and has a relatively high nitrogen content, such as ammonium nitrate or sulphate, BLOOD MEAL (not bone meal), urea, etc.

Slow-release type fertilizers for lawns/gardens are probably not the best choice at this stage.

A couple days b4 you plant, always check the condition of your bales by sticking your hand down in the bales to see what's going on.

If it's warm to your hand, then give it a few more days to "cool" down.

Just keep the bales moist, not drowned, and things will work out just fine.

TYPES OF BALES YOU CAN USE 101

Any type of straw, grass, or hay bale will work.

PINE STRAW will NOT work.

Hay/grass bales are used to feed livestock.

Straw-type bales are used for bedding and landscaping, etc.

Hay/grass bales have a natural supply of nitrogen and have produced good results from those who have used them. They cost more, but depending on how many bales you use, that may not be an issue.

Straw bales work great, too. That's all I've ever used.

You just need to adjust your feeding/fertilizing to compensate for the nitrogen needs of your plants.

You can orient the bales with strings ON or OFF the ground. Your choice.

I prefer the strings ON the ground when using straw. The water doesn't run through as fast.

Ok, I would like to add my 2 cents worth. Maybe 3.

1. I used hay bales for the first time last year. Always before I have used straw. Last year my tomatoes were the worst ever. Go figure.

2. Yes, you can put the strings ON or OFF the ground. They're your bales, you can do what you want. HOWEVER, the reason the 'water doesn't run through as fast with the strings ON the ground' is because when the straws are running vertical to the ground, up and down, (as they would be with the strings OFF the ground) they act like straws and the water runs right down thru them, rather than storing up in them like you want. Thereby, 'running through faster' as Kent said. (using more water)

Did I just muddy it up for you?

Jeanette

Ok, I would like to add my 2 cents worth. Maybe 3.

1. I used hay bales for the first time last year. Always before I have used straw. Last year my tomatoes were the worst ever. Go figure.

2. Yes, you can put the strings ON or OFF the ground. They're your bales, you can do what you want. HOWEVER, the reason the 'water doesn't run through as fast with the strings ON the ground' is because when the straws are running vertical to the ground, up and down, (as they would be with the strings OFF the ground) they act like straws and the water runs right down thru them, rather than storing up in them like you want. Thereby, 'running through faster' as Kent said. (using more water)

Did I just muddy it up for you?

Jeanette

One more thing I would like to add (ask) what is your heartburn with putting the strings on the ground? Those strings, either way, are going to outlast that strawl

I am new to the message board - looked back through all the strawbale threads, and didn't see one for step 1 (circa 2007 or 2006) -- can someone give me quick instructions on how to start?
Ginny

Ginny: if you mean the original thread, or PART 1, that got all this started, here it is:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/584625/

Welcome, aboard, my Queen City friend!! :-)

- - - - - -

Just noticed that the 4-yr anniversary of bale gardening at DG is coming up.

This message was edited Mar 14, 2010 5:55 PM

Well I tipped them over today and watered them as well as I think I can with my current equipment. As for why they were wire off the ground oriented...thats what I read so thats what I did. It makes more sense to conserve the water. I do not have months to wait til planting as here tomatoes need to get going early before the horrific heat moves in. I am going out tomorrow in search of nitrogen in some form. I will give them til the end of this month.
C

Have put my bales out and we have had three days of rain. Good news is that they have soaked through... near impossible to move because they are so heavy. Have not started the blood meal, but have been pouring the compost tea on them. They have not really started to heat up, but I think as the temperatures rise next week they should start to cook.

Kent, thank you for summing it up very simply. :)

Thanks for the original link, Kent. I'm looking forward to giving this a whirl.
Ginny

I am not sure how water soluble that lawn fertilizer (29-0-5) I bought is as it is in pellet form. I have had 11 of my bales for 5 weeks now and the others for 3 weeks and have watered and it has rained. Used the nitrogen for last 3 nights. Think I will plant this week (need to harden off house started seedlings) as we are expecting 80's this week. Has warmed to mid 40's. Want to direct seed for melons, think it is warm enough?

How do you spread the blood meal on the bales? I'm off to the store to get some and would assume that I would water after I put it on.

I just spread the blood meal on the bales prior to watering them.
C

Maine, how much are you going to put on? I would just take a can or cup or something, put the amount you want in the container and just shake iet on. I kind of stay away from the edges. You want it to decompose more down the center of the bale. At least wherever you want to plant your plants.

Thanks Jnette....I really don't know how much to put on and maybe I'm rushing a bit. Have watered daily but they are very cool in the center. Thought the bloodmeal would get it cooking faster.

I use the little cups from the dry laundry detergent. Just sprinkled it onto the bale from the cup. Planted that big (6") tomato and was that a bugger. If my seedling don't make it, I will have to look for 6 paks. Have not ever seen them, only 4 and 6 inch pots.

I hooked up the soaker hose yesterday and thought I could use it to soak bales. There was a bunch of run off! And, I did not know there was a side with holes and one without, LOL. Murphy's Law, I had it pinned to the bales to water was coming out the top. I am thinking, that with runoff, maybe I should have 2 hoses and have them pinned to the bales parallel, maybe along the twine lines, so the plants will be watered from 2 sides.

Maine, what is the nitrogen compared to the nitrogen Kent quoted to begin with? I think his was something like 34? What is yours? Why not use the same amount? I would take a measuring cup with that amount and if you want to use the soap container like QG said, then if you put that amount in it you would know how much to put in the soap container. Or whatever you want to use.

I may not be clear, but you should get the idea. I think the important thing is the nitrogen level in whatever you are using.

Jeanette