is compost enough?

Hi, I put compost in my veggie raised beds all throughout the year. I guess the stuff just disappears where I live because I keep adding it and adding it, and my beds still sink down over the months. I fluff them and fork them but they are always hungry for more compost. My real question is this: If I am adding compost every 3 months, do I still need to fertilize? If so what do I fertilize with? Everything I read says don't use synthetic 10-10-10 or anything like that because in long term it is bad~ Any ideas?

I wish I didn't have to say these two words, but here goes: it depends. Deciding what you truly *need* to add is difficult until you know what's already in there. Have you tested your soil? http://soiltesting.tamu.edu/

For a good collection of info (mostly forum threads) here on DG dealing with soil amendments: http://bit.ly/dgsLdO

For DG articles on soil testing: http://bit.ly/aq3gQG

If you decide to go shopping: http://bit.ly/9RRqh1

Compost keeps breaking down after it is put into the ground. This does not mean that the all the nutrients disappear. If you have a large and diverse amount of micro and macro flora and fauna in your soil, they will tie up a fair amount of these nutrients and slowly release it back into the soil were your plants can absorb it over several months. Also,your soil may have just become compacted due to rain and overhead watering. This usually happens to me if I don't add at least a 1-2 in layer of mulch like leaf mold or rotted hay. This will absord the impact of water and lessen compaction.

Also, look at your plants. Are they healthy and productive? If so, you don't need to fertilize. You may also not need to get a soil test done unless you have a serious problem. Such as plants turning yellow or brown, purple veining, stunted growth, twisted leaves and branches and so on. Or if you have good reason to believe that your soil has been contaminated by heavy metals, I know many people will disagree. But, in my opinion most people have acceptable soil that just needs amendments, like rotted manure and compost, mixed in once a year with the occasional side dressing and maybe a general organic fertilizer once a year.

The reason most people advise not to use chemical fertilizers is because they are water soluable. About 75% of it is leached out in a matter of weeks before it can be absorbed by plants roots or soil microbes. This is obviously not cost effective and can pollute the local water supply, Also, most people tend to way overfertilize. Overfertilizing does not equal more productive plants. Quite often it leads to weedy growth and insect and disease problems.

You're right. I should have used the terms water activated and microbial activated. For the most part, chemical fertilizers are entirely water activated (water soluable and ready to be absorbed) unless specially formulated to slow down absorption or mixed with organic compounds. This can make them 25-70% organically bonded, depending on how they are formulated. Organic fertilizer, especially those in their raw state (i.e. rotted manure, fresh coffee grounds) are mostly microbial activated. They need soil organisms to break it down before it can become available to plant's roots. Some organic material sold has been mostly decomposed or gone through a chemical or mechanical process to change at most of it into a water activated form. Fish emulsion is one of these products. However, about 50% or more of it, depending on how it is processed, is still in the microbial activated form. Some fish emulsions/compost products can have microbes that add an additional benefit to the soil.

I still advise not to use 'quick fix' fertilizers unless you are certain that your plants are lacking in an essential nutrient. CapCodGardener, your right that even 'natural' or 'organic' liquid fertilizers can be a problem. In years past, I made my own liquid fish compost in my backyard. At first it did enhance my plants growth and development. However, overtime I noticed an increase in disease problems, weedy growth and a slowing down of flowering and fruit set in my fruit trees, tomatoes and peppers. The last two years, I have only used twice a year application of compost and a granular organic fertilizer. This actually improved the productivity of my veggie garden. There was almost no pest and absolutely no disease problems. Most of the community gardens, college gardens that I worked in used little to no fertilizer beyond general organic amendments. They were all very healthy, productive gardens. My friends and neighbors that use the most fertilizers, especially chemical, tend to have the most problems.

edited to correct terminology (had to go back through old textbooks) and for typos


This message was edited Mar 4, 2010 6:40 AM

Thanks, you answered my question perfectly!

In the long and short of it I now know there were two of us in the creation or evolution of man. How simple it is! Manures, compost, leaves, organic fertilizers, trace minerals, Mycorrhizae and cover crops.

How sweet it is......healthy high organic content soil equals happy healthy plants. I just shut down my garden after sixty years of healthy soil healthy plants. There has never been a man made poison in my soil anyplace on this property save the small amount that migrated in by air or one year by surface water flooding.

Just revisited this thread after dodgipe's post. I'm gradually learning, thanks to helpful folks like you all. What I have gotten out of this invaluable thread is the impression that organic amendments like a good layer of compost, maybe twice a year at most, are the best thing for one's garden. Thank you all so much!

Now if you really want to set your brains a-buzz go to the library and have them call in a book for you to read. The No Work Garden Book by Ruth Stout. I agree with the one who said if you read this book never read another gardening book.

Love that book. Wish I still had my copy. Loaned out a few years ago and never got it back.

I just looked on line and my library has it so I am going to go get it and read it. If doc says, worms does.....LOL

Here's a link to an online book about soil building. http://www.sare.org/publications/covercrops/index.shtml It is really geared towards small organic farmers but much of the informationa can be applied to gardeners. It has detailed chapter about soil building. What it is and how to get it.

The second edition of The No Work Garden Book, Ruth Stout in very good condition was market priced at about two hundred bucks twenty years ago. Mine in fair condition was thought to be worth about a hundred. I got it in an auction when no one else on that day knew its value. I did not either! If someone would have bid seven fifty they would have owned the book. LOL

I just bought a used version on amazon. Thanks Doc

What did it cost ya?

about $30 shipped for "acceptable"... I never bought a book of that low quality so i'll let you know how it looks when it gets here.

I buy a fair amount of books in damaged and less than perfect. Never been disappointed yet. I will be interested in your comments too.

Well it's paperback and I don't know if it's first edition or second. It's already shipped so maybe i'll get it before weekend! It has great reviews so I am greatful for turning me onto it. If its in good shape maybe I can do something with it.

First and second editions are hardbacks. I have seen both and own the second edition.

Ruth Stout is my hero.

She should have been cloned. What a gal!

I think Ruth was a better writer than talker. She really knew how to make it lite and easy to read. Ruth was a guest at the Rodale gardening center and book distribtion business years ago. I drove from Greencastle to meet the lady. Paid some horrible fee for lunch as I recall. The Rodale folks never thought profit was a dirty word. She was a very busy person. No one really got to talk much with her. Like many she signed her book and made a little bit of small talk. At a luncheon she gave a lite talk based on the book most of us think was her best. Otherwise it was a commercial Rodale dinner with Ruth as the speaker

I don't know which Ruth Stout book I had, or what happened to it :( but I've been using her methods since the 1970's.

Thanks, Ruth, wherever you are :)

Sorry I been out of the loop here. The book is in fine shape, I don't think it has ever been opened, the only thing wrong with it is the pages are turning yellow. Unfortunately I haven't had a bit of time to tear into it but in about two weeks my life gets back to normal for a bit so theres my chance. Thanks again for turning me onto it ~

RF - she's really one of those you can read as chunks of time allow.
Similar to short conversations over the fence.