Questions about viburnum burkwoodii

I had what I thought was a small, fragrant viburnum. Last spring it died. I think because it was gnawed by rodents. It had been about 2-3 feet tall since 2001. In my records I had listed viburnum burkwoodii. But when I searched for it, I find that Bluestone says it is 5-6' high, and the Plant Files here in DG says it's 8-12' high.

Are there different kinds of viburnum burkwoodii? If not, what is the real height? What is the smallest fragrant viburnum?

TIA
LAS

The species plant Viburnum x burkwoodii (Burkwood viburnum) gets to be quite large, even as far north as Maine - albeit more slowly. 8-12' feet tall would be average for a plant grown in the middle of this plant's hardiness range after 6-8 years. It might take Burkwood viburnum 10-12 years to reach that height in your growing zone.

Burkwood viburnum is NOT a small plant - see image in this link. I can walk under the "opening", and I'm over six feet tall.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/192052/

There are several different named varieties of Burkwood viburnum, each with varying attributes. There are fully evergreen forms, fully deciduous forms, some selected for heavier flowering, and at least one relatively compact if not dwarf form. Refer to PlantFiles for fuller descriptions (http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/adv_search.php?searcher%5Bcommon%5D=&searcher%5Bfamily%5D=&searcher%5Bgenus%5D=viburnum&searcher%5Bspecies%5D=x+burkwoodii&searcher%5Bcultivar%5D=&searcher%5Bhybridizer%5D=&searcher%5Bgrex%5D=&search_prefs%5Bblank_cultivar%5D=&search_prefs%5Bsort_by%5D=genus&images_prefs=both&Search=Search).

I can think of a couple reasons why your plant was 2-3 feet tall since 2001. It could have been freezing back every year. It could have been grazed down by animals. It could have been a dwarfer named selection of Burkwood viburnum, like 'Conoy'.

Did your plant have any persistent foliage through the winter, or was it completely deciduous? What about fall color? Did you ever take any pictures of it?

Completely deciduous, no winter dieback. Perhaps I got a dwarf form? I've had a terrible time doing searches in Plant Files (see my posting today in the "Dave's Garden" forum. Could you give me more explicit directions to finding out about dwarf forms?

AH--h-h-h! ViburnumValley posted while I was typing the following. I'll leave in my two-cents worth since I already posted it!

ViburnumValley will surely (and hopefully) add his very valuable advice and recommendations when he sees this thread, but in the meantime, I will start the conversation.

I think you might have had a Koreanspice Viburnum, not a Burkwood cultivar, since it was completely deciduous. The most commonly available fragrant viburnums are the cultivars of Viburnum carlesii or the Koreanspice Viburnum. These include the original (extremely fragrant) Koreanspice, and many newer cultivars. Koreanspice grows typically 4-5' high, but possibly (and rarely) up to 8' and 4'-8' wide. It is hardy to zone (4)5 to 7(8), which would make it marginally hardy in your zone. It is susceptible to bacterial leaf spot. The smallest cultivar is 'Compactum' which matures at 3-4' high and wide, but with flowers about the same size as the species.

You might consider the reputedly hardier Burkwood Viburnum group (a cross between V. utile X V. caresii), although it can get to 8-10' tall and wide. There is a small cultivar, 'American Spice' which matures to less than 5' tall and wide. In field trials, it has survived a winter with ten consecutive days of -20º without snow cover. The cultivars of this group have the added attribute of being semi-evergreen in more mild winters. One small cultivar to avoid is 'Eskimo'. Although very compact and floriferous, there is absolutely no fragrance to the flowers.

This message was edited Feb 15, 2010 7:52 PM

This message was edited Feb 15, 2010 7:54 PM

So, what's the difference between Viburnum burkwoodii and Viburnum caresii?? They are both quite fragrant and both have waxy flowers. I love the viburnums. Not only do they give you flowers and fragrance, they give berries for an additional season of interest and the birds like the berries or drupes. Is there a V. carlesii also or have I just been spelling it wrong?

The main differences between V. burkwoodii and V. carlesii is the first grows larger (generally 8'-10' high and wide) and is semi-evergreen in most zones except during the coldest winters (temps below 20º F), and the second stays smaller (usually only 4'-8' high and wide) and is completely deciduous. V. burkwoodii has smaller, shiny leaves, compared to V. carlesii which has larger dull leaves.

V. carlesii is hardy in zones (4)5 to 7(8) and was introduced in 1902 to the Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew (England).

Many consider V. burkwoodii to have an even stronger fragrance than V. carlesii. V. burkwoodii is "officially" hardy in zones (4)5 to 8. It is a cross between V. utile X V. carkesii, introduced in England in1924.

Both are excellent flowering shrubs, with nice fall coloring, but I favor V. burkwood, with its many great cultivars, because it's semi-evergreen and gets larger, making it excellent for screening.





This message was edited Feb 19, 2010 10:10 AM

Here's a photo of V. carlesii.

HosierGreen Thanks. I had both. One of them died when I re-did some landscaping and I couldn't figure out which one I had left. I like them both. There are leaves on the V shrub that I have left, so it must be Burwoodii.

While were on the subject of Viburnums, I am looking at Viburnum 'Cardinal Candy'. Do you know which species this comes under? And what do you think of Cardinal Candy? I want it for the birds.
I bought a Brandywine last Spring. I hope it will produce a lot of berries for my birds.
I also planted 'Winterhut' this Spring so I would get more berries. But, how close in vicinity do you have to plant 'Winterhut' to get good cross polination?
So many questions. I also have a 'Shasta'. I guess you can tell I like the Viburnums. They do so well in Missouri.

Spell Czech! Please refer to the Burkwood viburnum as Viburnum x burkwoodii since it is indeed a hybrid species. Otherwise, I agree categorically with HG's posting above. Except for V. carkesii...

Cardinal Candy™ viburnum is a selection of Viburnum dilatatum (Linden viburnum) selected in Michigan (I think) for purported increased winter hardiness. OTHER THAN THAT, I don't think this plant holds a candle (or cardinal) to other selections of Viburnum dilatatum that I grow here at the Valley.

The fruit clusters on CC are rather widely spread on the plant, and do not generate the impressive display of other choices, like the National Arboretum introductions created by the late Dr. Don Egolf. Those stellar plants include 'Catskill', 'Erie', and 'Iroquois'. Other very good selections are 'Asian Beauty' and 'Michael Dodge'. I am growing all of these (and some others) at the Valley, and there is a mass planting of viburnums I designed for the parks here in Louisville where these can be seen growing side by side. I don't have the photos at my fingertips, but I'll post some images when I find them so you can see the marked difference in appearance among some of these clones. Take a look in PlantFiles as well.

Finally: remember that you get much less to almost no fruiting display when you plant singly. You will be amazed at the difference in fructiferousness when you have more than one clone of the same species planted to cross-pollinate each other (e.g., one 'Catskill' and one 'Asian Beauty'). Planting two identical clones does NOT increase fruit set.

'Brandywine' and 'Winterthur' (there's that Spell Czech again) are the perfect example of two different clones of the same species (Viburnum nudum) which when planted together provide scads of fruit. Planted alone - not so much. I had 21 'Winterthur' growing here with pitiful fruit production for a couple years before picking up a different clone - 'Earth Shade'. The following flowering season provided abundant cross-pollinating opportunities, and all plants were laden with the colorful fruit that fall.

I don't know the size of your property, but if it is a typical 1/4 acre residential lot then you should be able to have pollination no matter where you plant these two. My plants ranged from 50 - 100 feet apart. Mostly, you just need the flying insects to do the job for you.

'Shasta' is another very nice National Arboretum introduction. You will want a partner Viburnum plicatum f. tomentosum to cross-pollinate with it. 'Shoshoni' is a good compact version, and there are many more.

Enjoy!

Thanks to everyone.

Is there a simple way to print out this whole thread?


TIA
LAS

ViburnumValley, thanks so much for the good information. I have tried to read about these wonderful shrubs, but just get confused.
I thought WinterhuR :) (really, I thought I was doing pretty good remembering the name of the shrub!! :) Anyway, I thought I could use it to pollinate all the Viburnums I have.
Is there a paticular shrub that would cross pollinate my Viburnum burkwoodii??
And Viburnum plicatum f. tomentosum 'Shoshoni' (I'm trying here! :) is a good pollinator for Shasta??

LAS: My son (a computer major) told me how to print something like this out. I will "try" to tell you what I do.

1. Minus out of this site.
2. Go to Word, or Word Pad or some other site that will create a document.
2. Minus out of that site.
3. Go back to this "page"
4. Now, left click at the bottom of your computer (on your "pad").
5. While holding the left button down at the "pad" and using your cursor, highlight on the message you want to print
6. Drag your cursor down the message you want to print out to the bottom of the message.
7. Put your cursor on the highlighted area and right click and a menu will show up and click on "copy".
8. Now, minus out of this website and bring up the empty page you had minused out on step 2. Bring that empty page up and using your cursor, right click on the page, a menu will show up and click on "paste".
9. Now, the "message" you wanted printed out should be there.
10. From there, you should be able to print the page out.

If this doesn't work, try it a few more times. Sometimes, I have to do it a couple of times to get the entire message highlighted.

Man, I hope this helps. Using computers are great and there's a lot of stuff you can do on them if you "just know how". The main key to this task is using the left button on your pad, holding it down as you drag your cursor down the message.

Good Luck.

birder17:

There is no Viburnum Magic Bullet™, but there ought to be a clone with this name. Hmm....

'Winterthur' is only going to help you with other Viburnum nudum selections.

'Shoshoni' is one of many fine selections of Doublefile viburnum that will cross-pollinate with 'Shasta'.

Viburnum x burkwoodii can be pollinated by a number of related plants. Since it is hybridized from crossing Viburnum carlesii and Viburnum utile, any viburnum of similar heritage or parents can potentially cross-pollinate with Burkwood viburnum, as long as their bloom times overlap.

Some possibilities for your Burkwood:

•other Burkwood viburnums, like 'Mohawk'
•Viburnum carlesii and clones of it, like Spiced Bouquet™ or 'Compactum'
•Viburnum x carlcephalum
•Viburnum x 'Cayuga'
•Viburnum x 'Conoy'

You have quite a few choices there.

Okay, Viburnum is the Genus
burkwoodii is the Species
'Mohawk' is the cultuvar.
Now, if you want lots of flowers and berries, you have to choose CULTIVARS from the same SPECIES, right??

Close!

Binomial nomenclature is fun to be confused by. I don't know that I have it 100% correct, but I'm always endeavoring. The use of the Latinized name helps overcome the hurdle of multitudinous common names for the same plant, or the same common name for entirely different plants. If you own a copy of Dirr's Manual, this info (and much, much more) is located in the front on pages xxxi - xxxviii.

You have the genus or generic term correct: Viburnum. It should always be capitalized. The second part is referred to as the specific epithet. Together, these parts form the binomial to name a species of plant.

SO...a species is named by a binomial arrangement of words.

Generic term + specific epithet = Species

Viburnum + ×burkwoodii = Viburnum ×burkwoodii

Don't pull your hair out just yet; we're just getting started.

Actually, the specific epithet for Burkwood viburnum should be written as ×burkwoodii. This is the designation for the specific epithet to represent a species (in this case, Viburnum ×burkwoodii) that is the result of the crossing of two other individual species. Burkwood viburnum, as noted above, derives from crossing Viburnum utile and Viburnum carlesii.

Viburnum utile × Viburnum carlesii was determined to be a stable and reproducible interspecific hybrid, and was named Viburnum ×burkwoodii. The fun part is figuring out how to type in the symbol ×. Most people just use the small letter x on the keyboard, but it is challenging and correct to pull the symbol × up off the Character Map (along with other fun symbols like ¢, £, ©, ®, ™, ¾, and even é). If you haven't explored this capability of your computer, you should (especially on snowy or rainy days, or when you're down with a cold - natch). You can also produce most/all of these symbols through the magic of the ALT key. Google that, and then another whole world opens up.

So (three cups of coffee later...):

Viburnum ×burkwoodii is most correct.

Viburnum × burkwoodii works, as does Viburnum x burkwoodii. Leaving out the × or the x should not be accepted.

It would be like calling you burder17.

Binomial Nomenclature class dismissed. There'll be a pop quiz tomorrow, worth 50% of the semester grade.

∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞∞

To answer the rest of your cross-pollination question, I refer you back to my previous post and I'll restate some of it here. Viburnum ×burkwoodii has good Partners In Pollination (think Gladys Knight and the PIPs) with other Viburnum ×burkwoodii plants that are not identical. That would include other cultivars/clones (as you've surmised with 'Mohawk'), as well as other seedling grown or otherwise non-clonal Burkwood viburnums.

Still confused? OK. Imagine your individual plant of Burkwood viburnum. It has its own distinct genetics, and it doesn't pollinate itself well. If you took cuttings of that plant, rooted them and grew them out, they would be exact replicas of your original plant - or clones. With the same genetics, they still will not cross-pollinate with others that are exactly alike. SO, you need dissimilar Burkwood viburnums.

Imagine your same original Burkwood viburnum, but for some reason you have had some paramour passing through the neighborhood and you find that there are fruit forming on your plant. Grow out seedling plants from these seeds, and you will have additional Burkwood viburnums that are genetically dissimilar from your original parent plant. These seedling Burkwood viburnums will be adequate PIPs, just like 'Mohawk' would.

The other species I listed in my previous post (V. carlesii and clones of it, V. ×carlcephalum, 'Cayuga', and 'Conoy') are also suitable PIPs because they derive from the V. carlesii side of Burkwood viburnum's heritage and have overlapping bloom times.

Can you see how this isn't the easiest concept to explain via typing? Talking about it over coffee, adult beverage, or a cool glass of tea on a hot day is a much better and satisfying approach.

If you want to learn how to underline, bold, italicize, or strike through...that'll be a whole 'nother post.

ViburnumValley, I am now bald and am swimming in a pool of coffee. Thanks for the excellent explanation.

I only have one new one for me on order for this spring. Viburnum farreri 'White Perfume' or is it really Viburnum fragrans "White Perfume' ? And should I have ordered it? It is a Roy Klehm selection.

Up for suggestions now that I am ready to dig some holes this spring. Patti

Viburnum farreri is the correct nomenclature. This species appreciate cooler soils and summers, performing best in areas like Roy Klehm hails from. Give it a shot - you are allowed to kill it three times before giving up.

I don't know that you've ever divulged the extent of your viburnum collection. I'm assuming it's rather thin. Let's start with what you've got already, so that I can recommend expansion.

Here's one I saw when last up your way - no good New Englander ought be without it.

EDIT ADDITION: This is a picture of Viburnum phlebotricum at the Arnold Arboretum.

This message was edited Feb 24, 2010 12:46 PM

Who dat???

My list is below, but I think I lost a couple of them last year to deer as they were babies and uncaged. I am sure I may have some of them listed incorrectly. Patti

Viburnum acerifolium
Viburnum burkwoodii Mohawk
Viburnum carlesii
Viburnum carlesii Diana
Viburnum dentatum
Viburnum dilatatum Asian Beauty
Viburnum dilatatum Erie
Viburnum dilatatum Michael Dodge
Viburnum edule
Viburnum farreri White Perfume
Viburnum lantana Variegatum
Viburnum lentago
Viburnum nudum Brandywine
Viburnum nudum cassinoides Winterthur
Viburnum opulus
Viburnum opulus aureus Park Harvest
Viburnum opulus Redwing
Viburnum opulus Xanthocarpum
Viburnum plicatium var. tomentosum Lanarth
Viburnum plicatum f. tom Weeping Magic
Viburnum plicatum var. tomentosum Mary Milton
Viburnum plicatum var. tomentosum Popcorn
Viburnum plicatum var. tomentosum Summer Snowflake
Viburnum rufidulum
Viburnum sargentii Onondaga
Viburnum x bodnatense Dawn
Viburnum x burkwoodii Ann Russell
Viburnum x burkwoodii Conoy
Viburnum x carlcephalum Fragrant Snowball
Viburnum x hillieri Winton
Viburnum x pragense

Whoa! ViburnumValley is going to be impressed!

I only have two hairs left! And I am out of coffee! :) I have been reading the info over and over. Boy, things get detailed fast!
I was going through my plant tags yesterday. I came across two Viburnum tags: 1. Judd Viburnum and 2. Korean Spice Viburnum Viburnum Carlesii This is exactly the way they are on the tags.

Viburnum farreri has lots of berries! That's what I am looking for!

I am trying to figure out what Viburnums I can grow in my area that would be good for heavy berry production and I would also love it if they were fragrant to boot. I would like to chose from my local nurseries. I use "local" broadly. I know of a nursery that is 2 1/2 hours away that has an excellent variety and excellent quality.

I think I will call them and get a list of the Viburnums that they have. I just hope I can figure out "who's who" to make some matches. So far, I haven't done very well just going out and buying Viburnums just because I like them.

If viburnums are a favorite, Michael Dirr has written a great book on them, entitled appropriately 'Viburnums'. It's printed by Timber Press, and available on line or in larger bookstores. It's lavishly illustrated with color photos and loads of information, with his often witty and humerous observations and opinions.

I have that book, but I have learned more here on Dave's Garden and especially from VibValley and a few others. Patti

That book was a major dud in my view.

Stop showing off, Patti!!!

I have Mohawk and it's a wonderful specimen!

My Mohawk.

Showing off, not so, cause you are the arbiter of taste and the dictator of acquisition for my garden. I still keep a "Victorlist" All your fault. Patti

Hee hee - sorry!

And your viburnum list is way better than mine - not fair!!

Gorgeous Viburnum xburkwoodii 'Mohawk' (Are you looking ViburnumValley?? :)
It's very pretty. I hope I can figure out which Viburnum died a couple of years ago and which one I still have.

I think VV is pedaling to power his 300 baud acoustic coupler so he can connect. Hee hee! Things are 'historical' in the valley. ^_^

I hope he is trucking around looking for some special shrubs for this spring. I am all ears.

Victor, your Mohawk is way better than mine. I have many little guys that will take years to become specimen plants. Patti

Mine is about ten years old, Patti.

I edited my post above with the photo, so folks would know what species that is - Viburnum phlebotricum, growing at the Arnold Arboretum in Boston. Good species to partner with the Viburnum dilatatum clan.

birder17:

Locally produced (or at least regionally) plants usually bode well for insuring that they'll be decent growers for you. Get the list from the nursery you mentioned, and post here. We can help sort through the PIPs for you, and offer experience on olfactory qualities.

Dirr's newer book is good in that it increases the amount of viburnum knowledge in one text, but I wasn't impressed with the "cut/paste" information straight from the 5th edition of his Manual of Woody Plants. Still, it's an update from his 1998 efforts - and more viburnum knowledge can never be bad.

If you don't know of them, there is a very good grower of many viburnum species located in Upland, NE. Classic Viburnums is way out there in the hinterlands, but they are producing quality stock, making new selections, and generally increasing knowledge of the range of viburnums. You might look to contact them in addition to using your local outfit. I think they are listed in GWD as a vendor.

VG and bbrookrd:

'Mohawk' is an outstanding plant - another gem produced by the late Dr. Egolf's efforts at the US National Arboretum. Truly offers four seasons of interest on a tough shrub.

Viburnum Valley, Thanks for the offer to help me sort out a couple of Viburnums to purchase. I stopped by the local nursery and left my phone # for the gentlemen that orders the shrubs to call me with a list.
I also need to call Friseall's east of St Louis.

Good grief!! Can my Mohawk get hugh , and I could never be a master at all the info here , nor a master gardener .My brain hurts. Guess I'll just have to enjoy the scent and hope I haven't done anything wrong .Phewww . digger

I have taken a couple of pictures of my two Viburnums that I am not sure what they are. I found two ID tags that I kept along with other tags. I had three Viburnums that are the "ball" flowers and very fragrant. One was:
1. Viburnum burkwoodii 'Mohawk'
2. Viburnum juddii (the tag just says: Judd Viburnum from Monrovia)
3. Viburnum carlesii 'Korean Spice'
I lost one when I had some landscaping done by a nursery-no offer to replace the shrub. They replanted it and it died. But, I can't remember which Viburnum is which and which one I lost.
Here are some pics I took. I would appreciate help identifying these beautiful shrubs and telling me a pollinator I could plant with them.
I had no luck asking the nurseries to give me a list of the Viburnums they had.
I appreciate the suggestion of the Nebraska resource and may use them. But, I will check locally to see if they have a Viburnum that one of you may suggest as a pollinator first.
Both Viburnums are in bloom now and very fragrant! Beautiful!

That probably wasn't the best choice of a picture. I haven't learned how to edit yet.
Here's another picture:

Same Viburnum now:

The other shrub:

Shrub #2 again:

Sorry that's shrub #1 again-just from the other side. :( I am having trouble recognizing the shrubs as the pictures are so small. I don't know how to do this very well. I apologize.