Recipe to amend soil for JM?

I know that this is a no-no for JM but I have all clay here. Does anyone have a recipe for ammending complete beds? The last bed I amended consisted of 4 yards (I believe about 4000 pounds) of a garden mix from a landscape supply mixed in with 30 % of the clay. I used a shovel to mix it in. It was a huge bed and it took 8 hours to do (2 days).

Everything seems to be doing well but I would like to get some better recipes for the other large bed to be done this Spring. Please keep in mind that I don't want to go broke doing it.

Also, any suggestions on mulch? I used shredded hardwood mulch on the first bed because it supposedly breaks down faster adding nutrients to the soil.

I also have heavy clay. For new beds, I always work in (by hand or tilling) at least 6" of compost which I can buy in bulk locally (about $30 per cu. yd.). (You can figure one cubic yard for adding 3" per 100 sq. ft.) This results is a raised bed for a planting area, which is perfect for Japanese maples and most other plants too. I always mulch with hardwood bark which does break down quickly, adding to the soil. I sometimes work in very finely shredded hardwood bark with the compost which results in a very nice, moisture retaining, but good draining soil mix for planting (about 1 cu. yd. per 150 sq. ft.).

Hoosiergreen, glad to see that I am not the only one that has clay. What type of compost are you mixing in? Also, about how much hardwood bark do you mix in?

I am also glad to see someone else use the hardwood bark for JM. The only problem that I see is that it seems to break down too fast. Last year I bought 1 yard in the spring and then another yard in the fall to prepare for the winter. That is on top of the 3 yards I put down in the fall when I first planted. I was also a little concerned it was going to raise the PH too high (or is that a wives tale).

Another issue with the hardwood bark is the possibility of termites on the frame side of the house. The bed this spring is on that side and I was thinking of putting a foot of cedar mulch between the house and hardwood bark. Think it will work?

I've used hardwood bark mulch for almost 25 years in my small landscaping business (alongside teaching) with absolutely no termite or other insect problems. I live in the country, surrounded by woods and use hardwood bark mulch all around my own home, and have never had a problem either. As long as you're using hardwood BARK, not wood pulp, you should be fine. Trees have bark to protect against insects, including termites.

Not that I haven't had customers tell me their insect exterminator has told them to not use bark around their house. I really think that exterminators don't know or don't want to bother with distinguishing between bark mulch and other mulches that can draw termites such as ground-up dyed wood pallets, utility company tree trimmings, etc. THOSE can be a problem, and I've even seen termite infestations in utility company trimmings used along a house foundation.

The first year using bark mulch (in a new area), you will find the mulch rapidly "disappears" into the soil. After the first year, this doesn't occur as the soil/bark seem to reach a balance of some sort. Also, last year, with the unusually abundant rainfall, was idea for decomposition of the bark. I'm not sure how deep of a mulch layer you applied last year, but with all the rain you received, it's not surprising it "disappeared" into the soil so quickly anyway. I always apply bark mulch about 4" thick to a new area, lower around the stems and trunks of plants of course. This settles down to a couple of inches. When you can see bare ground, usually a year later, I spread about 2"-3" for the "second coat". 9 times out of 10, this new layer will last two years. I always look at mulching as an investment in the soil!

The compost is use is made in huge piles at the mulch supplier in our area. It a mix of stable cleanings (straw and manure), sawdust, miscellaneous mulch leavings, and leaves collected by nearby towns. Many towns are making their own nowadays, and provide it cheap or free to residents. For new landscaping jobs, I usually get a 1-2-3 ratio of one yard fine bark*, 2 yards good pulverized topsoil, and 3 yards compost to incorporate into all planting areas. It makes for wonderful planting beds and the
plants really take off nicely. All areas are typically mulched with hardwood bark, unless the owners want something else like pine bark nuggets, rock (yuk) or cypress (which I avoid as I don't consider that a "green" product).

*finely ground bark is called "Forest Fines" in this area, and I've actually seen it sold (bagged) in the Chicago area at garden centers, although you probably have a local supplier where you can buy in bulk, which is cheaper.

As for changing the pH, I do think that's an old wives tale. It breaks down beautifully and the worms incorporate it into the soil. In my gardens, after almost thirty years, I have wonderful soil I can dig with my bare hands. Since compost is known to help neutralize soil pH, and rotted mulch is pretty much compost, I would imagine there would be no problem.

Note: The photo is of our local mulch maker, Greendell Mulch & Mix. The original owners (Byron and Celeste Green), since retired, were pioneers in promoting the use of bark mulch back in the 70s. They "recycled" tons and tons of bark slabs, a byproduct of Southern Indiana's timber industry, into mulch. Up till then, huge piles of bark slabs would be burned! Can you imagine?

Thanks for all of that information! Your post seems to explain why I had to put so much mulch down the first year.

As for the termite question, I just googled it and 9 out of 10 articles agree with you that hardwood BARK mulch does not attract termites. I guess since I have a cement foundation that is 6 inches higher than the ground I am creating a barrier that would be required to keep them away as a precaution. Out of curiosity, do you have a frame stucture or brick?

One last question. What type of fertilizer do you use? I know you are not supposed to use alot. I used a little Holley Tone in the Spring.

Our home is wood-framed, but bricked, with a poured concrete basement. However, over the years, I've used bark mulch around dozens of wood sided homes with no problems.

I like to use Holly Tone, greensand, lots of compost, and I spot and sheet compost all of our kitchen scraps in the vegetable garden. For landscaping jobs, I usually resort to time-release Osmocote since it is easier for those applications.

Glad to help.

I think it really depends on how close to the house it is .. termites will infest any non treated , non living wood period hard or soft ..I use hardwood for my areas away from my house and cedar mulch close by . cedar is considered the next best thing to treated lumber although I have seen termites riddled in cedar posts . Cypress is cheaper but not as termite resistant as cedar . generally for me and others it becomes a case of cost I can get a truckload of mixed mulch for free from the city or ten bucks privately a bit closer .. since I have an acre of raised beds I can't afford cedar and this area is not near buildings .. I would have to agree with the termite folks and not Hoosier on this. But whoever is right it comes down to I guess. why take the chance in the areas very close to your house...As far as breakdown you will have that whatever you use except non wood rubber mulch and have to put more on over tiime sometimes yearly. I always use heavy duty landscape cloth on top of the soil and my mulch on top of that so this is minimized and Preen in spring and summer to keep weeds down.but be aware creeping charley really likes wood mulch and thrives in it's warmness all winter and no amount of preen will help since its not spread by seed.so one should keep on top of this. As far as compost if you are adding soil it is probably not necessary and as far as jm's can cause excessive growth .. If you have mixed beds as, Hoosier probably does, the benefits outlay the risks . Those being excessive ranginess of fast growing Jm's and possible winter dieback from such in fall. Basically JM's really don't like nitrogen which most compost is rich in .. well they like it they just don't react in a way that is best for them like caffene or chocolate to humans . But it is not critical... if you see excessive growth just stop adding compost. The most important things with amending is really two things . One, do enough so the roots don't sit in ponding water over the clay underneath and realize with time your trees will have roots out of that clay so it may not be a long term fix. but hopefully the trees will adjust to the outside area and be helped by new roots in the older amended area. David(san)

This message was edited Feb 13, 2010 8:28 PM

David, you're killing me (LOL). Just when I feel a little more comfortable putting the hardwood mulch close to the house you stir up my fears. I guess common sense says why take a chance. I mean what's more important, a house or a tree? However, I have been told before (by my wife) just use your common sense and sometimes I have a problem with that.

So, what do you suggest using? Is there a safe distance between the house and the mulch? I'm not going to sleep tonight.

Thanks for the information on this and on the tree wrap. Also thanks to Hoosier.

I really don't know .. I guess the safest way would be to use cedar mulch up near houses..it repels insects ..or that rubber mulch which is recycled tires but not too pretty IMHO although some like it and pricey .I don't know if it is avail in bulk. Of course the rubber stuff should last a really long time..but I don't care for it. I think the chances of termites from wood mulch is minimal but I am no expert.. I use to use all cedar mulch but it was really pricey by the bag and hard to get in bulk .. for small areas it is useful large it's just too much ...I think allot of folks including most botanical gardens use rocks but they are heavy and hard to spread and also pricey ( I am talking about gravel or something a bit bigger). In your position I just don't know my instincts would be to put a strip of a few feet of cedar next to houses and keep the other farther out.. at least you'd have a barrier whether that does anything it will likely help.. But as i said I wouldn't loose too much sleep ..it is likely a red herring issue .. just something to be aware of. More concerning to me with all wood mulch is the Creeping Charley problem .. especially in areas you cannot spray or easily weed around such as perennial areas .. it is a total mess and you must hand pull it out but you just cant get it all and within a month it is back and must be redone. If I had my druthers All my perennial hardens would be history and all would be raised beds with spaced trees and plants in a more formal manner .. but I can't affords a divorce at this time ;>) David(san)

An interesting conversation, and one that will never probably be resolved. But, David(san) has made some good points. Remember, termites have to have access to wood. Interestingly, they don't just crawl over the ground. They abhor light and always tunnel when searching for new food supplies. The exception would be when they swarm to start new colonies, and fly to different locations. However, even then, research has shown that they don't typically land on trees, wood piles, sides of homes, etc. They land and burrow into the ground, under leaves, etc.

Now, termites can burrow through soil to reach the foundation of a home. In the two cases where I've seen termites around a home, both times the owners used utility company tree trimmings. It was amazing. (Warning to JAPMAPLE: Graphic description follows!) Raking back the half-rotted "mulch" revealed a writhing mass of termites yards across, completely infesting the area. In one case, they had already gotten into the foundation of the home, doing thousands of dollars damage. I wish I had taken pictures. In the other case, I learned an important thing. The owners had put down weed fabric in one area before laying down the tree trimmings. Strangely enough, the termites they had stayed away from the the half-rotted mulch over the weed fabric, but infested the same stuff adjacent to that area.

I asked the County Extension Agent about this, and he said that termites have to have access to soil for tunneling to food sources. They maintain a system of tunnels that they live in and from there, they travel to food sources. If the ground is covered with a barrier like weed fabric, they can't easily get to the mulch above it and are not comfortable being away from their tunnels in the ground. I don't know how this all applies to termites in a home since there's no dirt in the foundation (Well, maybe those with a crawl space?), but I would think that this would suggest that there are two ways to get some peace of mind:

1.) Use a 2' strip of weed fabric along the perimeter of your home before laying down the mulch.

2.) Make an 18" rock gravel over weed fabric strip along the perimeter of the home. I've actually done that a few times, but more for drainage issue and where people didn't want mulch along wood siding for fear of moisture and rot.

Note: Cedar mulch is excellent for repelling insects, but expensive in bags. Even in bulk, it's about twice the price of regular hardwood bark mulch.

As for rubber mulch, it is so-o-o-o nasty! In addition to being terribly expensive (over $300 a cubic yard!!!), there are all sorts of safety and environmental issues to be aware of. When radial tires are ground up for this use, the metal is shredded too. This leave small but dangerous shreds of metal in the mulch. There have been cases of children getting tiny slivers of metal in their hands, arms, legs, and feet when playing in playgrounds using rubber mulch. Also, there are concerns about chemicals and heavy metals in the mulch. Lastly, it smells in the sun, worse than asphalt. I predict that in a few years, it will either be heavily regulated, or taken off the market. The few people I know who have used it regret that decision.

One more thing: I've read somewhere that any home that is over 25 years old was routinely treated, when constructed, with powerful insecticides that are now banned. They were so strong that termites should never be a problem. I don't know the accuracy of that statement, but it makes some sense.

So anyway, don't lose sleep on it. You've got lots of choices in this matter, but your chances of getting termites are slim to none no matter what you do.

surprised to here folks use the weed barrier fabric - i really do not like that stuff and once down you can never get it all up - removed some here when we first moved in and as i work on beds i still find pieces of the stuff - very hard to shovel through - i keep mine weeded simply tackle a few beds at a time too keep them weed free - tough if you have a bad back though.

for mulch i use a hemlock mix and have not had ant or termite problems. i go right up the house with it. do not use the colored stuff though as it can get on the foundation.

I avoid weed fabric whenever possible, but use it under rock mulch and in certain weed infestations (thistles and/or bindweed). It does last forever, at least the commercial type, and is a real pain to deal with when planting new plants or bulbs! My suggestion was for creating an easy termite barrier along a house foundation if people were nervous about termites. I, too, have never had a termite or any other insect problem in almost 25 years of using hardwood bark mulch.

Okay. I actually did sleep last night. I was Googling termites and mulch for a couple hours last night and sort of came to the conclusion that if termites are around they will get to the house no matter what type of mulch you have (including gravel or stone). I found this on a couple of sites. Notice the last sentence.

"Landscape mulches contribute to a stable moist environment that is good for our trees and shrubs, and unfortunately, also good for termites and other insects. Termites in Iowa live underground in large, social colonies. Worker termites come to the soil surface (or higher) to feed on wood and other cellulose materials and carry it back to share with other colony members. Termites constantly explore for food by excavating a network of random, pencil-sized tunnels through the soil in the area surrounding their nest. Termites may tunnel for distances of up to 300 feet from their nest site. The presence of moisture favors termite exploration, tunneling and feeding. Therefore, any landscape mulch may improve conditions for termite colonies, whether the termites consume the mulch or not.

This does not mean you should avoid use of mulch, nor does it endorse one type of mulch as preferable over another. The same conclusion was recently reported from research at the Structural IPM Program at the University of Maryland. They studied the impact of landscape mulches on termite foraging activity in the laboratory and in the field. Termites that fed on a steady diet of either eucalyptus, hardwood or pine bark mulch suffered significantly lower survivorship than did termites fed the standard laboratory control diet of white birch. This result suggests that although we routinely discover termites in wood chip mulch, it is unlikely that they feed heavily on organic wood-based mulches.

In the field, termites were detected with equal frequency beneath mulches of eucalyptus, hardwood, pine bark and pea gravel and bare, uncovered soil. Sustained activity over time was significantly higher beneath gravel mulch."

I guess to be on the safer side I am going to use cedar instead of the hardwood bark. I can get it in bulk and I don't remember the cost being too much higher. However, is this going to add nutrients to the soil?

Also while searching last night, I found a do it yourself termite protection system (Hex Pro Firstline System). Does anyone know anything about this. It seems to consist of some type of trap the may use a chunk of treated wood inside to kill them. It also is a way to find out if termites are in the area. Incidently I seen a post of one guy that burried 4" chunks of wood a few feet from the house and checked them every few months for termites. It doesn't kill them but at least it gives you a warning sign before they reach the house.

Cedar is higher but Hoosier is a landscaper and that comes into play when you bid jobs..and understandable .. If you don't have allot of usage it is no big deal.. I have had little problems planting anything in landscape fabric .. A simple kitchen knife or sharp scissors you poke into it and slice an a X.. Spread the x apart and and widen if it is too small be sure to put a tarp next to the area dig your hole put dirt on tarp plant and refill take away extra dirt .. done!! I have planted 40 or more trees and shrubs a day doing this and if you are doing grasses etc it would be even easier. One other benefit is that if you plant spreading grasses or whatever it won't spread .. but I guess that can be a curse too ;>) what ever it decreases weeds , keeps the mulch from discombobulating into the soil and provides good drainage and moisture retention...But Hoosier is correct ONLY if you use pro landscape material which is not cheap and often times and in many areas snort avail locally so you get hit with larger shipping charges. If I remember correctly I use 3-4oz woven fabric .I t is also lined I think every 2 ft so you can plant stuff symmetrically if you want. That thin crappola you get for cheap at lLowes or Menards is a waist of time IMHO. D