New Zinnia Page

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1067228/

Came from here!

Burpees favorite from customers of 2006
http://www.burpee.com/product/annual+flowers/zinnias/zinnia+zowie+hybrid+-+packet+%2815+seeds%29.do

Thanks Tropic! This one loads, much faster!

Here is the only pic in my "send to DG" file, Zinnia wise, lol.>

~Daniel

Speaking of dandelions, this zinnia reminded me a bit of a dandelion.

ZM

Those Burpee's favorite Zowie hybrid zinnias were a 2006 All-America winner, but I personally don't like their tall pollen-bearing cones. This particular Zig Zag specimen (Zig Zags come in many different color combinations) had basically the same three colors as Zowie, but in a more classic flower form with a minimum of pollen. I think that when you breed your own zinnias, you can do better than some of the commercial varieties. Incidentally, as I recall, Zowie was actually bred by Grimes, http://seeds.grimes-hort.com/ordering.asp and Burpee was just one of the many seed companies that carried them.

ZM

All I'm saying...for now!

*G*

All three, BB, Zen, and Tropic, are just gorgeous!!

I don't like Zowie! either. I like your's MUCH better and wish that Burpee and all the seeds companies would sell your's, LOL!

~Daniel

Pink>

BB,

I really wonder if that Violet Queen zinnia will look as purple as that seed packet when the actual flowers bloom out. To me, the seed packet picture looks unrealistically blue-purple, but I hope I am wrong. I would like to get a zinnia in that color.

Some lavender zinnias can look bluish when they bloom in the shade. I have actually seen some zinnias that looked almost sky blue until the sun got to them and the coloration gained a magenta tint into the blue-lavender. In 2006 I had an echinacea flowered hybrid zinnia that showed some sky blue tendencies in its petals. A few days after this picture was taken it got some full sun and the petals became more lavender. But for a few days there it teased me with its hint-of-blue color. It was part scabiosa flowered, so the central florets were colored, but not the same color as the petals.

Incidentally, the explanation for the poor quality of this picture is that I didn't have access to a digital camera at that time, so I used my video camera to take short 5-second videos and then did frame grabs from those short videos to get still pictures. This particular picture was cropped from a video frame and then upsampled to increase the pixel count, so that accounts for the lack of detail in the picture. There just weren't enough pixels to start with. I hope to get a decent digital SLR camera this year to improve the quality of my zinnia pictures.

ZM

BLUE!!!
Can't belive it!


I had(ve too) the same packet as BB and here is what it turned out to be, not surprisingly>

Zin, I marked you down to let you know.. remind me though later. I am inclined to beleive the seed packet is over exaggerated as well.

Precisely!

~Daniel

that lemony-yellow is so pretty. Is it a light yellow just like the photo?

Heres one of mine. I think it was State Fair. I really like that last one you posted Daniel!

This message was edited Feb 3, 2010 1:42 PM

Speaking of dandelions, has anyone ever tried hybridizing one? Theres some orangey and white species too. Would it cross with a zinnia?

Steven,

"Would it cross with a zinnia?"

Just transferring pollen from a zinnia to a dandelion or from a dandelion to a zinnia would almost certainly not produce any viable seeds. Otherwise, we would already have seen some dandelion x zinnia hybrids, because bees move a lot of pollen from one flower to another, including between zinnias and dandelions.

It would be potentially possible to combine a zinnia with a dandelion by using genetic engineering techniques. They would call the result of such a cross a "cybrid", which is the term used for a cytoplasmic hybrid. A cytoplasmic hybrid, or cybrid, is a partial hybrid produced in vitro where only the cytoplasm of the donor protoplast is retained in the acceptor protoplast. Producing cybrids is one of the things that you can do with tissue culture. I am currently studying tissue culture as a means of micropropagation of any exceptional multi-hybrid zinnia specimens that I might get, but producing cybrids is not something that I will be doing in the near future. Further on, who knows?

ZM

I have never heard of a cybrid. Almost sounds kind of scary :) So I take it that if a plant is a cybrid that means its geneticly modified? Or geneticly engineered as you said?
This is probably a novice question but are there lots of cybrids commonly available on the market today?

Steven,

"So I take it that if a plant is a cybrid that means its geneticly modified? Or geneticly engineered as you said?"

There are some touchy semantic issues involved here. The acronym GMO stands for "genetically modified organism" and it is anathema to a large fraction of gardeners, especially organic gardeners. For most of the last century (the 1900's), organic gardeners would not grow hybrids, for whatever reasons. Then, in the 90's I noticed that some organic gardening seed suppliers began offering hybrid corn varieties. Open pollinated corn was much inferior to hybrid corn and organic market gardeners, with their smutty open pollinated corn, just couldn't compete with hybrid corn. So exceptions were made. In fact, all of the things that we grow, whether flowers or vegetables or fruits, are actually genetically modified from their original wild forms. Bees have been responsible for an enormous amount of genetic modification.

But I think that the term GMO refers to certain processes of achieving the genetic result. Apparently hybridization has now been exempted, although there may still be some debate about that. But micro-surgically placing genes from one organism into a completely different organism certainly qualifies as GMO. The "glow in the dark" fish that have been sold to people with aquariums are certainly GMO. Their "glowing" gene came from a completely different organism. They are sometimes referred to as "FrankenFish", as if they were created by Baron Frankenstein.

The cybrids that I referred to above may or may not be classified as GMO. Their combination of the cells is accomplished without surgical intervention, but that may not be enough to satisfy the organic gardeners. There are a lot of plants for sale that were produced by tissue culture, but I don't know if they are classified as GMO or not. However, they certainly wouldn't be advertised as GMO, because that would inflame the organic gardeners. A lot of "organic" people would not only not buy such plants, but they might picket the sales place. It is, like the book was titled, "a Brave New World."

ZM

Wow, this is fascinating! I never really thought about it the way you phrased it in your first paragraph. I remember reading a book a while back that talked briefly about the development and attempts to create a blue rose which Suntory has now released. It's called 'Applause' and is reportedly the first rose to be 'blue' from delphinidin pigments which roses naturaly lack. However its 'blue' colour is very similar to roses 'Blue Moon' and 'Blue Girl' which are both from the 60's. I really should read more on this as I find it very interesting. Do you use and GMO techniques on your Zinnias? I've heard of some breeders using different chemicals or even putting their seeds in the microwave to cause mutation.

Genetic engineering....

Steven,

"Do you use any GMO techniques on your Zinnias? I've heard of some breeders using different chemicals or even putting their seeds in the microwave to cause mutation."

So far I haven't used any GMO techniques on my zinnias. I have used simple cross pollination and selection, which are tried and true methods. I may at some future time adopt some more advanced breeding techniques. I am convinced that if the bees have failed to come up with a blue zinnia with trillions of random crosses over a period of centuries, that a different method will be required to get a blue zinnia.

I think that a blue zinnia the color of Heavenly Blue morning glories would be nice. I also like the darker blue of Bachelor Buttons (cornflower blue). I don't see any harm in borrowing a few blue genes from several different naturally blue flowers to make a good assortment of different blues in zinnias. It's a bit like borrowing a cup of sugar from your neighbor. You could call it genetic engineering, I suppose. Or just being neighborly with genes. And if the hobbyists who breed morning glories wanted to borrow some different color genes from zinnias, I wouldn't see any harm in that either.

An assortment of different blues in zinnias would provide a lot of cross-pollination opportunities among them, and between the wide range of colors that already exist in zinnias. Zinnias are already a lot of fun to cross pollinate because they have so many colors, flower forms, and plant habits. The number of different possible crosses is almost limitless. A bunch of new blue zinnias would just add to that fun. And add some interest in the garden landscape.

ZM

Blue is one of the most "difficult" colors in nature.

ONE WORD: Delphidin?

Daniel, you say Delphidin, I say Delphinidin.....have I gone and used the wrong term? :)

ZM,

I was looking at, I think it was your previous thread, where you had a zinnia that was almost blue in the shade. Now if the zinnia is blueish in the shade does that mean the zinnia posesses that colour and needs more breeding to bring it out? Or is it just simply the lighting?

I thought he meant delphinium, yano, the flower???!

Oooo, I thought he meant the pigment.

SW..heck if I know! I cant spell werth a hoot some daz!

I like your spelling! I have a friend who is from Oklahoma and she types with an accent! Beyond me how she does it!

Hooked on Fawn-x!

Steven,

"Now if the zinnia is blueish in the shade does that mean the zinnia posesses that colour and needs more breeding to bring it out? Or is it just simply the lighting?"

The shade is a naturally bluish light, because the light in the shade comes from a blue sky. Lavenders look more bluish in the shade. I have seen zinnias that were powder blue in the shade, not just a trick of the light. But as soon as they got some sun, they changed to a lavender (even in the shade).

I used to think that two pigments were involved, a powder blue and a magenta or lavender. If that were the case, all you would have to do would be breed away the lavender and you would be left with powder blue. But I have never had any success doing that, so now I suspect that the powder blue and the lavender are the same pigment, one that itself changes color depending on the presence or absence of sunlight. I don't think that zinnias have any true blue pigment in their genes, or at least if it is there, it is well hidden. I will still dabble at trying to bring it out, but I don't expect that it will appear.

Burpee involved the whole country for many years in competing to produce a white marigold, and the white marigolds still aren't pure white. They always seem to have a tinge of yellow. Since a lot of people who grow zinnias like to buy their seeds for a dime a packet, there isn't a lot of economic pressure to produce better zinnias or to go to the trouble to produce blue zinnias. On the other hand, rose growers will pay many dollars for a new rose bush, so I expect that genetic engineers will produce true blue roses within a few years.

Meanwhile, merrily crossing one zinnia with another, you can get some interesting results as all the different genes recombine in countless different combinations. This picture is a recombinant that has characteristics from both Scabiosa flowered zinnias and Whirligig zinnias. That thing reminds me a bit of a Fantasy Parrot Tulip flower. Some of its sharp-toothed petaloids have brilliant red tips. This flower looks like it is going Trick-or-Treating. I'm saving seeds from it because I think the bi-colored scabious florets have possibilities.

ZM

Very nice,a tropical sunburst!

Very nice Zen!


SW, I can't spell either! Spell check on Microsoft Word is my best friend! I was reading a book, Flower Confidential, Chapter 2, and the first part of that chapter was about blue rose and blue flowers in general. And about how Florigene and other companies have created purple Carnations and "blue" Roses. Zinnas? The name of the pigment (correct term?) is delphinidin.
Here is an interesting tidbit>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianthus_caryophyllus
Scroll down till you see the pic of the Purple Carnations.


BB, I like the way you talk-type too!!

LOL! Well, just being me... Spell checker is over my head! LO!L

Hope EVERYONE GOT THER PIC saved to a place they dont get lost.

Im miffed information like this thread might get lost under the new management. That would peeve a lot of people, not just me.

What new management?

Dave's Garden been bought out by some big company and Dave did not know anything about it. Now they don't have a position for him, just as a user. I think this was the last discussion thread:

http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1071571/

We are always the last to know.. WHY WAS NOT A DMAIL SENT TO EVERYONE REGARDING THIS.

Daniel, I was reading that book too! It's so good! I haven't finished it though.......Did you read the part about the Stargazer Lily? HAHAHAHA@ the spell check. I do that all the time too!


ZM, That Zinnia is beautiful! If you ever want to sell some of your seeds I'll be first in line!
If they're a stable strain or not doesn't matter, because I'm sure they would all turn out great!

Hi all,

It has been said before in many ways and times, but What a revolting development!

However, I renewed my membership for a year just three days ago, and no regrets.

I hope that spooky zinnia didn't have anything to do with this (grin).

ZM


Steven,

"If you ever want to sell some of your seeds I'll be first in line! If they're a stable strain or not doesn't matter, because I'm sure they would all turn out great!"

I'll be growing all of its seeds for the time being. It might make an interesting strain. I have several of its seedlings going now. It's a hybrid of hybrids, so the recombinant offspring will be all over the place. I have no plans to sell seeds, though. This is just a hobby for me. I might be interested in trading seeds with fellow amateur zinnia breeders, though. Such an exchange could be a win/win.

ZM

Hmmm...........maybe I should start some zinnia breeding this year........I would trade you for any of your zinnia seeds! anytime!

Which one was the spooky zinnia?

Steven,

"Which one was the spooky zinnia?"

It was the last picture I posted. I assign a short identification code to each of my "breeder" zinnias, and its code is C70. The "C" denotes 2009 and the 70 signifies that it was the 70th breeder designated in 2009. I keep all details regarding the codes in my garden journal, so that my tags on the actual plants can be rather small. I will be designating a "D1" rather soon, as my first breeder of 2010, and I will begin pollinating and cross-pollinating it.

ZM

Well, I guess I wil be renewing my membership too. If only so I can keep touch with some excellent information ya'll have put in this thread in particular!

Spooky zin? Did I miss that pic? OH! You mean the pink one that has that monarda look to it? Now thats different!