I have had clematis for years, all different kinds of clematis and all of them except for jackmani and the autumn blooming one, the leaves turn crunchy, black from the bottom until they look as if to die complete, then will return from the same stem, but the black crunchy leaves are still attached. It can't be from lack of moisture this year because it has rained a min. of every 3 days, never hit 90 degrees yet. I am on the verge of ripping them all out and I have probably 10 different varieties and have spent alot of money on them only to be soooo disappointed. Can someone help!
Help before I rip them all out!
Many clematis look less than their best when they're done blooming as you'll see in this photo, taken locally at a nursery that specializes in them.
I cut mine back and they bloom just fine the following year. I can't take the look of crunchy black leaves!
happgarden, you did not mention how old your clems are or what types. but i understand how you feel. mine used to look like this by mid summer too. some things help as you get more clems in for a longer time.
regular deep watering is important vs frequent watering.i know you have had oodles of rain this year in your area and this can cause problems too.
i remember mid season and showing folks my clem garden and being so embarrassed, and one year i just decided going for a healthy plant is my goal, so when they look really bad i cut them back. no matter what type. a dead brown or black vine is not going to grow again.
over time you will discover that they look better and better for longer if you fertilize after bloom time, keeping up deep watering, deadhead or lightly prune a green plant after bloom time etc.
but when they are bad they are bad, and in the weather situation i am imagining you are in, with the heavy heavy rains some of this may have been out of your control.
good luck and don't give up!
Great I will cut them back, I just don't want to look at a trellis full of black vines. Jack is still green, but all the others are black. Glad to know I am not the only one with this problem. Think I will sit a pot below the trellis and grow a tropical vine up. That will not distrub the roots of the clem. and still keep something on the trellis.
Thank you all very much,.
Listen to Clem Guru. She really knows! I cut all my 2-3 year olds back and they are all coming back green and vibrant.
thanks marym.
happg,
pot with tropical good idea. i have done this before with annual vines in the ground or in pot. many nurserys are closing out plants now, at least around here, and there are god buys on jasmine and other climbing plants that you can fill in with. some of your clems may come back quickly and surprise you with green shoots, growth and even reblooming. depending on what has turned them dark and crisp, some may not re appear till next spring. in this case treat the spot where the clem is like a living plant and fertilize and water it on the same sch as your living clems.
glad you are not giving up. we all know that feeling of spring and early summer's vigor waning and the post bloom issues with clems. those will get less and less as you get more time in and more plants with more time in. but you will still deal with this with come clems and young clems, you'll just care for them automatically and they will respond better and better!
ClemGuru, a couple of th clematis have come back already even with dark and crispy leaves still attached. How often and when do you fertrize and with what?
You ask which clems I had:
jackmani - which has been in the ground since 1985 and does great
will goodwin
snow queen
ernest markham
fireworks
ville de lyon
duchess of edinburgh - always turns black quickly
asao
multi-blue
fireworks
big white one - can't remember the name
Alot of these have been in the ground since 2004.
Do the leaves look almost as if there is a gritty coating on them? If yes, then it could be a fungus from the plants never drying out.
Hi Julia, I just got back from your area Wednesday. It is so pretty up there.
I looked at the leaves and they are just black no fuzzy at all. More like they aren't getting enough water which just can't be this year. Even the years when it has been dry they have done the same thing. I thought maybe they were all dieased or something, but just glad to learn to cut them back.
Thank you
happg, some of your clems are notoroiusly difficult ones to establish and get steady performance out of.
vile de lyon and multiblue might be your best performers of the group?
jackmanii can take a few years and them for most folks is a big steady perfromer. i have had wilt with some jackmanii for several years before they grow out of it. asao, might get big slowly but should be a nice early bloomer with a beautful mounding style to the growth.
duchess of e is notoroius for this and will goodwin too.
if you are committed to clems, just have patience with them and also get some more type 3's form a reliable speciaty place such as sivler star vinery or brushwood garden vines. they ship a nice size plant. silver star prunes them back before shipping which helps them get off to a better start (you might not prune it and if otit would grow more slowly)
clems need good drainage and a friable soil that lets the roots move easily thru it. if your soil is clay based, this means adding humus and crushed gravel type grit to the natural soil to make a god mixture and plant the clem in a hole that is about 12 inches wide (some do wider, but i do 12) and 18 inches deep. the hole is filled with the amended soil.
i would get clems like margaret hunt, julia correvon, minuet and etoile violette, ......give yourself a break , make sure you are planting correctly and get some easier clems in.
clems minimium schedule would be fall fertilization 6 weeks before your first hard frost date, early spring fertlization as dormancy breaks and feeding immediately after the main bloom period. they also benefit from weak liquid fertlizer between these main feedings.
stay committed to clems and while you work with this group and they improve get some proven fast trackers in the ground which will motivate you and add beauty to the garden. you will not regret hanging in there and staying with clems as a hobby.
Wish I would of known about you and DG 5 to 15 years ago....would of made life easier.
Duchess of e has never never looked good. I have it in two places. Now with some knowledge maybe I can make some sense of it all.
I do have clay soil. Now that they have been planted for years it would be hard to add gravel or the such to break it up. I do know there is a liquid that has microbs in it that is suppose to break up clay. Think I will try some of that, I keep about everything mulched but have top dressed with compost but can't see that it has made any difference.
Jackmani, autumn, and fireworks usually perform wonderfully for me. I will try next year some of those you suggested and really amend the soil before planting.
Thank you so much for your help, looking forwarded to next spring and see if I can make some improvements.
you will be amazed at what can happen with the right clems and the right soil. i know you will be enthralled and more understanding of the struggle you have had with thes and the struggle the clems have had with life too. fireworks is a medium god clem for me. sweet autumn is forgiving to grow. it is a species and it is more adapted to the wild and conditions not optimum, your culitvars need coddling and special care compared to sweet autumn. please let me know that you decide to get next year,where you get it and what your experience is.
i would be happy to go thru planting and soil ammendment again with you if you want. getting folks into clems and having a good results is a crusade for me.
you can reach me at dhardwick@digitsconsulting.com if you do not see me or find the info you want on the forums!
CG I'm taking notes here.
Thanks
Jon
,my pleasure to be avialble and give back to the hobby and cult of clems that has added so much to my gardening and my life, including friends, learning and beauty!
CG I will take you up on your offer, that is so nice of you to help. I think I will maybe get the new areas ready now in preparation for spring.
If I wanted to replace the duchess what would you suggest? Or would you suggest I try to keep them even tho they are tough. I hate to give up....LOL, but I would sure like to have some beautiful blooms.
I am guessing there may be lots of folks interested in your teaching me.
happ, CG is teaching all of us :-)
CG, I have used your soil prescription, except used pea gravel in bottom of planting hole, (didn't know better) and my recently purchased 12 clems are really taking off. Now I don't know if I should use a trellis for support or if I should use fishing line # 10 weight nylon string? Please help.
confussed
confussed lady, not sure i can advise on that as i do not know what the fishing line would be attached to at top? i have never used fishing wire or seen clems grabbing on to it.
have you used it successfully before? maybe some folks can weight in here that have used it to good success, or do not recommend using it. glad you are ;making better soil, you will see a big difference as you are already noting.
happg
thanks for all the nice feedback. i think what you might be asking is what to do to resustitate your existing clems?
if the duchess has any blooms at all each spring i would take some actions as follows. if it is one vine of a non healthy color i would be less optimistic but still do the following.
1 cut about 25% of the vines back to about a quarter inch over one of the leaf axils. if it is one spindly off color vine, take it to two leaf axils from the bottom. this will effect your blooms next year to a certain extent as it is a pruning group 1 clem that blooms double on old wood from prior year. to build a healthy plant don't worry about sacrificing next years blooms at this point.
2 build up the soil around the base of the clem, using rocks to form a circle , landscape edging or the top 3 inches cut from a 3 gallon nursery pot will work. fill up the area higher on the plant with ammeded soil enhancement such as Nia's posy poser mixed with aged manure , little bit of bone meal and some chipped gravel or oyster shell (this is sold as poultry grit at feed stores).
3 deep water it and then use a good fertilizer. a liquid one with iron is good (ironeite).
4 continue deep watering it 2 times a week if temps in 70's and 3 times a week if temps in 80's.
5 watch the plant to see if it has signs of success, green growth from the vines or the base. if not d o the liquid fertilizer with iron again in two weeks.
i would not advise to dig it up and plant another clem there without knowing more as some of your issues may have been with the location itself. drainage, sunlight, chemicals from pressure treated wood, fertilizer build up in the soil, other variables perhaps. there are many location variables and without identifying if there are any there, why endanger another clem?
try this on any clem that is not flourishingnot matter what the pruning group and you should see response.
keep us posted an dhave fun!
Confussedlady, ref: fishing line, the single filament nylon type is unsuitable for use in the garden generally for
two reasons that spring to mind. First and foremost it is a hazard to birds as they can become entangled in it.
Secondly, nylon line will degrade in sunlight overtime becoming brittle. Garden twine is a far better alternative,
trellis would last for many seasons.
Pajonica
Will do, I like your suggestion.
Duchess has blooms every year, as a matter of fact she has buds right now on the top but the whole lower section is black. I will take pics this evening and show you what it looks like....
1. Find - Nia's posey poser
2. Surgery
3. Landscape edging
4. Build up soil
5. Water
6. Wait
Got it.....thank you so much
CG thanks' got the idea from a gardener on you-tube. I would like to have the clems grow thru evergreen hedges. (have had them over 30 years, can't remember the name & not much trimming is required of the hedges. I had planned to attach the string to a strong limb & use level loops as a guide for the clems.
Japonica, thanks so much for remaining me of the birdies. So I am not sure I will even use garden twine. Love watching birds dig for worms. Thanks GC & Japonica.
Confussuslady, Well done you! You have unraveled the anagram of my DG name the very first to do that!
So glad to hear that you too put wildlife first. Stick with GC thats CG small wonder your conussuslady!
Love you already!
Jon x
confusssedlady
do you have a photo of the evergreen hedge you are thinking of planting with clems? sometimes a really mature hedge can have such a root system to make it hard to establish some thing else. many times the clems are put in with the hedge is younger and they grow up together so to speak. can you post pic and i am sure a lot of folks will weight in here to give some insight.
CG, will get picture to you very soon. Have a bigger problem. While
talking with a relative, he noticed that I have bagworms on my hedges.
Not sure how I will handle the bagworms. Realize I cannot delay getting
rid of the worms. Not all of the hedges are infected. As Murphy's law
is catching up with me, don't have needed time to spend in the garden today. Will do some work tonight. (handpicking the worms.) I am afraid to use chemicals at this point. Any suggetions.
Thank's
confussedlady
yep they have to be handpicked off. i have had them on some evergreens, no real damage. no evidence they spread to clems. but yes , you must get rid of them. they can destroy the evergreens if left on and they spread. but pretty easy to get rid of an dcontrol oitor the area for awhile after they are picked off.
burn them, or make sure they are destroyed!
Hey all I just brought a house this spring and I do have a clematis and all kind of other plants . The clematis was growing very good than it and than it got very heavy and is now fallind down and dying I have read that you cut them down i that in the fall or is Aug to soon. I never had one before and I want to get more. How far can you cut them down too. Thanks for reading. Here is a picture from a month ago
Dimmer(AKA) Kim
And here is today I hope this isn't sideways sorry I thought I fixed it
Dimmer
dimer, that is a nice 'ville de lyon' clematis you have there. it is a pruning group 3 that means it needs to be cut to the ground in the spring. this will bring a flourish of healthy new vines each year. this clem can also be cut down by anywhere from 25 to 75% after blooming, usually in mid july. if you do that and fertilize it , it will re grow and bloom again in late aug/sept. those blooms will probably be smaller, but non the less gorgeous.
some years i actually take mine to the ground in early july, if the plant looks rattty and spent. this year i did not do that, but i cut off 50% and am getting new growth on the plant.
this is a great performing clem that rarely has problems once it gets to the maturity of yours.
it needs fertilizer 6 weeks before your hard frost date in the fall, again n the spring like late april or early may and after the main bloom period at the same time you do any pruning.
let it go into winter with the growth of the season intact, that protects it and then in the late winter or early spring hard prune it as you would any perennial you are used to caring for. congrats on the new house and this great specimen clematis who is a real buauty by the looks of it.
just saw your second photo which you posted as i posted. right now, i would take about 25% of the old vines and ugly stuff off. fertilize and then kick into the instructions i posted a few minutes ago. the plant was not hard pruned this spring. if you care for it properly you will have more blooms next year and none of the scruffy old vines.
too late in the season to do any deeper pruning than that, but this will be a good spruce up for it, and you are well on your way to a good season next year with it then.
enjoy
Oh Thanks so much and now I even have a name for it. This is tuff but good I had to let eveything grow weeds and all and now the weeds are blooming and I can't tell what is good and what to pull (HAHAHA) Some of my weed are really pretty.
Thanks for the help I need to read the link on the top of the form for Clematis to see if you can propergate and other thinks but you have all helped me alot now to find the time. I do road construction in the summer and layed off in the winter just to fine time to water plants is hard I think I should invest in a system for water and a timer but that will be next year
Dimmer( AKA) Kim
Guru, finally got to take some pictures and get them posted. This is what my vine looks like, this is Henry I believe, wierd thing is now Henry is blooming from the top 5 or 6 inches is new green growth. 90 percent of my clems look like this, even tho they are in different spots in the yard, different exposures.
This message was edited Aug 11, 2009 4:31 PM
happ, not that uncommon of a look. the fact that there is new green growth higher up and even blooms speak to the general health of the root of the plant and some inconsistencies in care perhaps or climatic stress along the way. so that is good news.
henri is a pruning group 2. this means if there are undamaged vines in the spring that made it thru winter you have some lovely early, and probably large blooms.
this group of clems needs a shaping and damaged vine clean up right after the main bloom period. this helps ensure the vines you over winter this year and get next springs growth on are fresher and in better shape. eventually, damaged vines can not moantina a healthy appearance.
good practice is consistent deep watering at intervals so the plant uses the water, but does not dry out completely and then gets hydrated again .some of the spots etc may have come from periods early this year where the inches of rain were too much in a short time? maybe not. but not uncommon look.
your henri sounds very healthy in general with what you mention on the top. there re several courses of action you can take, some of which might effect your early blooms in 2010.
you can not control the climatic things, except to prepare the plant to withstand them such as ensuring good drainage. clems also need fall, spring and after bloom period fertilizer.
if other clems you have also look similar and they are not p group 2's the course of action may be different.
so before we go any further can you tell us how and when they were fertilzed, any info about the drainage and or your early season rainfall and how you usually water. how often? in response to a plan or schedule or in response to how they look? what are the names of the other ones, or some of them? want to understand if your p 3's as well a p2's are suffering. also do you have any clems that look healthy and good foliage now? if so, what names on those?
not trying to make complicated, but there is not one answer. but based on what you have shared so far i think there is no reason you can not get them in better shape. or at least know the options and what short term ramifications they would have.
so more info please.
Thank you so much for offering to help. I have obligations the rest of this week and so it will be this weekend before I can look up the names of the different clematis. Just wanted to let you know, cause I wouldn't want to miss the chance for help.
Thank you again.
look forward to it very much
I haven't fallen off the face of the earth yet, I know it is flat....cause I keep losing mulch and rock so it must be falling off the edge.
Had a leak in my pond and took a while (days) to find it. While trying to save fish and plants....but finally have that under control.
I will get my list together because I really could use the help. Sorry for taking so long.
Thank you again.