bone meal ok for veggies? (don't want mad cow potatoes)

Hi everyone. My DH wants to know if there's a possibility of getting mad cow disease by using organic fertilizer that contains bone meal on our veggie plants. I'm thinking that the bone meal breaks down and the plants absorb the phosphorous in it, but i'm no chemist.

That's a good question, Rose. I've wondered the same thing. I hope someone with some knowledge in this area answers you! Who wants beets and carrots that weave and wobble, and who wants to eat them???

I think it's highly unlikely--the disease causing organism for mad cow disease lives in the brain and nervous system so I doubt it would be in your bone meal in the first place, and even if on some long shot it was there, I don't think it could get absorbed through plant roots and into your plant. Not to mention they keep their eye out for cows with the disease and would destroy them, so it's very unlikely that a cow with the disease would have been used to make bone meal in the first place.

However, we don't know the source of the bone meal we're buying, as with most substances these days. It could come from areas that don't have safeguards. I'd still like to know more about this. MCD is caused by a prion, like syphilis, and it can be very sneaky.

I was told if heated to a certain temp and held there for a set amount of time then beef products would be safe to use. The feedstore where i got my dog food from initially did not use any beef because they also milled cattle food and the risk for cross contamination was too great. Now they sell dog food with beef that has been cooked properly, shame to, cause I liked the all chicken, egg and fish they used for protein sources dog food better than the new formulas. Dont know how it would effect the bone meal. Dont know how freezing for a certain amount of time would effect it either. Good luck, Kathy

Actually one of the reasons why mad cow disease is such a concern is that prions are very hard to kill--cooking won't kill them. Even some of the normal sterilization procedures that are used to kill bacteria and viruses won't always work on them and those are more extreme conditions than cooking.

Dont know what the feedstore was talking about, then. Maybe the guy who told me this was misinformed as to why they could not have the beef. Glad someone knew more than I. Kathy

I was under the impression that prions were resistant to heat. Here's one article about it which indicates that incineration isn't the answer:

http://lists.essential.org/dioxin-l/msg00050.html

And here's another source that talks about prion resistance to heat:

http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-dictionary/Prion/

and yet another:

http://www.injuryboard.com/national-news/mad-cow-disease-kills-two-in-spain2.aspx?googleid=235176

I wouldn't take what you were told as gospel, for sure.

I have some old bone meal a friend pulled out of the back of her garage. I still can't bring myself to use it!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bone_meal

That said, this was interesting too:

http://www.ibiblio.org/rge/archive/970821_17371.html

It's not that it gets into the plants, but that bone meal dust can be easily inhaled while applying. Wear a mask, wash everything afterwards...or fugettaboutit!

Thanks for the articles, nedweenie. I'm definitely leaning towards the fugettaboutit approach.

Me too - I've got too much of the stuff in my garden already, and can't take it back out!

I've been tired of the self righteous "organic" lobby for a long time. You can't get BSE or any other infectious disease from well tested and approved chemical fertilisers!

If you're including bone meal in that category, that may not be the case. And don't forget, speaking of "tested and approved," about all the products that are recalled because it turns out that there are issues with them. Sometimes it's just better to be safe where there's any question at all. But everyone has to decide his or her own comfort level, of course.

Then what are you doing on the Organic forum?

Please take your ignorance and trollish behavior elsewhere. You've added nothing of value to the discussion, and we're not interested in your insults.

I read the topic because I'm a passionate tomato grower. I didn't even notice it was an "organic" thread! My comment was tongue in cheek. If it offended you I apologise unreservedly. However over in Europe the organic lobby have become so powerful that those of us who are prepared to use the very limited range of chemicals that the powers that be in Brussels permit are almost treated like pariahs; and you can't totally blame us for hitting back occasionally.

Over here we don't have much in the way of an organic lobby--it's completely the reverse as a matter of fact, the big agricultural chemical companies are the ones who have most of the power which is why people reacted so strongly to your comments. Organic is not the mainstream here (although it's becoming more popular), so it can still be hard to find good information--that's why this forum was set up specifically for people who have chosen to garden organically.

Apology accepted. And understood, to a degree.

Nobody likes being told what to do, no matter where you are in the world. But you may want to stick around & learn more about organic practises. Fossil fuel inputs are unsustainable, add no nutrient value to the food, and fry the microbes in the soil (which do). There is so much more to soil science than NPK.

BSE was introduced into cattle via unnatural feeding practises. Sometimes Mother Nature does things a particular way for a reason. And we would be better served to understand & follow her lead rather than follow the cheap & easy route created by mankind. Cheap & easy has hidden costs, and hidden difficulties, just waiting to reveal themselves later.

patgoerge
I Think I understand what you are saying, I too have and probably still will - on unusual occasions use synthetics. Howeve I live next to a wetland and it really should be illegal to use some of the stuff thet's out there - I don't know how bad you've got it but I learned a lot from watching this forum and found Organics to be a proud and educated bunch we can all learn from I owe them much gratitude and respect. Stick around. you'd be amazed what you can learn. I havn't spent a dime on fertilizer, feed or disease and bug control for two years other than bugs and compost pitchforks - ( i did however pick up a back up bottle of ortho max for late blight this year just in case)
But probably won't need to use it.

-joe-

Hi there. I'm an organic grower as well and regularly use bone and blood meal in my vegetable and flower gardens. You might look on OMRI.org for a tested source of these products. (I cannot tell you exactly what they test for without further research.) We use Phyta-Grow with good results. The most reasonable source I've found is from:

Bone Meal - $34 / 50 lbs - http://www.environmentalgreenproducts.com/store/bone-meal-4-14-0-pelleted-pr-16519.html

Blood Meal - $40 / 50 lbs - http://www.environmentalgreenproducts.com/store/big-red-blood-meal-13-0-0-pelleted-c-314-p-1-pr-16518.html

I believe it is also available in smaller quantities on Amazon.

Most bone meal packages state the source, and many now say "bovine-free," and is made of pork-based bone meal. Read the package. Whether you trust the package or not is up to your own paranoia ;-)

interesting discussion - thanks for all of your input. i was able to fine a locally-produced fertilizer that contains fish bone meal. i still don't want it to end up in my lungs though, so i'll be spreading it when the winds are calm. :)