What would be some of the reasons for a clematis not to bloom? This is the same one I posted about a few days ago (I only have one), here's a link to that post: http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1004079/ So I've been trying to keep from getting discouraged about this plant. I just got home from a walk around my neighborhood on this beautiful summer evening and saw many clematis in full, lovely bloom. I have no trace of any buds on mine and just can't figure what's going wrong. As I mentioned in the previous post, this is summer #4 and while the thing has climbed and is spilling over the top of the trellis, it is not terribly full and has never had a single bloom. It is planted on a west-facing wall and gets about 6 hours of direct sun a day (maybe not enough?) The soil has been amended over the past 4 years with composted manure and various kinds of mulch. Other things around it seem to grow fine (i.e. shasta daisies, some kind of ornamental grass, coneflower, primrose, and hollyhocks that I just planted this year). Oh, and HD had it labeled as 'Jackmanii' but who knows if that's actually the case. Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated! Thanks,
Jen
Clematis has never bloomed
can you post a pic here showing the whole clem plant? i remember your posts. i want to check that it is a clem and see the size of it vs the close up of the leaves that you posted.
the sun level sounds ok and if other things are blooming the only thing that would do is make fewer blooms, not no blooms.
also post one showing the leaf arrangement at the end of the stem....a close up of how the leaves are arranged on the stem. so a stem and leaf close up.
Jen..Clematis "Jackmanii" (And this is ONLY if it was labeled correctly) is a pruning group 3 and should be hard pruned each late winter/early fall..'cause is blooms on the new vines that are produced during the growing season..sooo...have your hard pruned it each year?..are you fertilizing?..sun amount seems ok..I'm with Deborah..I'd like to see a pic just to see if what you have is really a clematis..you can tell by the leaves..and wonder if you've mistakenly been giving it a high nitrogen fertilizer instead of one that has a higher "p" in the n-p-k ratio..'cause if so..your clematis would produce gorgeous green leaves and not flowers....Jeanne
Ok, here is a picture of the entire plant:
And here's a leaf close-up.
Jeanne, I have only used composted manure to fertilize around this plant, with the exception of a little Miracle Gro here and there when I've had annuals planted around it (but not this year). I have never pruned it, as this is the first year it has ever shown any kind of significant growth. As I mentioned in my previous post, I am a relative newbie, and when I first planted it, I tried to use an old piece of wooden fencing as a trellis without realizing the slats were much too wide; the poor thing was unable to climb anywhere. The black trellis you see pictured is new this year and is quite obviously better suited. But still no blooms. And when I was out taking the picture, I noticed that several stems down near the ground looked kind of brown and dead; maybe that's why it's not full? I hadn't noticed this before because there were daisies in front of it that I only recently cut back.
well it is a clem.
i was out watering some clems a bit ago and realized i have a sickly belle of woking that has ben in the grund about 3 years. it had one bloom in year two, it has never bloomed since. the leaves look a lot like yours. mine is not as tall and i have written it off to a genetically bad plant. i am actually going to destroy mine, as it is in a row with other clems that are flourishing and i know there are not issues except "bad plant"
however, regarding yours.it looks better than mine. there may be hope.
but the soil looks compacted. is the soil heavy clay? do you amend it with items to enrich and lighten it? is the clem right at the drip line of your roof overhang? if so , it may be picking up contaminants from the roofing materials. the drip line can have other drainage issues associated with it and is always beat to avoid planting under a roof dripline.
if the soil is heavy but not at dripline, you can dig away a lot of the soil from yours in a circle about a foot deep and 2 ft wide and replace it with a mixture as follows. about one third of your soil mixed with Nias Posy Power or other ammended horticultural compost, sand, vermiculite, handful of bone meal.
your best bet if the soil is very heavy and or at dripline is to cut the plant back to about 6 inches high, and move it to a new hole with ammended soil as above. you can plant clems on the trellis if you go a couple of feet out at least form dripline, but in the winter soil and ice falling off the drip line can be an issue 2 feet form the actual dripline.
hope this is somehow helpful and not offensive, but those are my thoughts on viewing the photos. good luck.
There is clay in the soil, but it has been worked quite a bit in the last couple of years with manure and topsoil. However, I have not added any of the things you mention. As for the dripline, I hadn't paid any attention to it and didn't realize it was an issue. Our roof has a very steep peak but the way it slopes I don't think there is a lot of runoff in this area. However, I might not be understanding the issue fully. Here is a picture of the house taken just this May . . . can you see the trellis down there in the middle? It's actually leaning against the chimney, technically, I guess, which brings it out from the roof line somewhat, right? I don't know. I am not in the least bit offended; just grateful for feedback. :)
pretty house!
you are right it doesn't seem under the drip line. are there any gutters running into the area?
today, i was on another site that has a clem forum. there was mention on there about clems near cement foundations and trouble. can't remember which posting on the site it was on, but it was in the clem forum, quite a coinkidinky viewing my earlier post to you about the dripline. i would move the clem to a location to the side of one of your foundation shrubs,about 3 or 4 feet forward and make sure that i filled the hole with nicely ammended soil. put shrubs that are doing well along the line to the rear....??? sometimes we can not solve every mystery, but you either have a gentically bad clem or a location that is tainted or will not support clem health. probably both....you can also not spend the time and energy to move it, but just move on with clems in better spots and shrubs to the rear.
the front of your home is pretty and getting some depth and height to the rear and bringing the clems forward to create dimension and interest is probably a good plan anyway regardless of this uncooperative little bugger.
good luck and enjoy all your learning, it's the gift of gardening to teach is along the process.....remember it is the journey not the destination that makes gardening a life lesson that never ends! at least you learned it with one clem , not 10!
Just wanted to say that I find your house very pretty too, and I can see why you wanted a clem in that spot. It would be lovely there at full maturity. If it were me, I'd accept the wisdom in everything clematisguru says, and then I'd probably try another clem there anyway, because I'm reckless that way.
Also wanted to say it's very nice to see another Chicagoan here... Laura
This message was edited Jun 29, 2009 8:24 PM
jc:
Love your house, reminds me of an old church.
I'm enjoying the conversations about what might be the no bloom cause of your clem. Great learning in this forum.
Thanks to all those who have been in clems for a while and your willingness to freely share with us.
Janet
I so agree, meadowyck. CG, like so many other experts at DG, has been incredibly generous with her advice. This is a fascinating thread.
my pleasure. alas, my belle of w has only a treated board fence to blame, but there are other clems along the row who do not complain about any tainting from the fence.
another thing you can do is just keep trimming the clem back, every few weeks and see if that along with fertilizer and love eventually bring forth a more vigorous plant. i have taken that tack with this sickly belle of w over the last two years, and eventually it just started not responding to my tactics and now is a sickly looking 8 inch plants vs sickly looking 3 ft plant.
if there were never any genetically compromised clems, what a perfect world it would be.....
How long ago was your house built? The soil around the foundation of a house is usually very poor, especially in newer construction. What was the soil like when you dug the hole? Compacted clay or a lot of stones is a pretty good indication that depleted soil was used. Also, while compost helps the soil in the long run, the nutrient content in compost is very low. So, if the contractors used poor soil around the foundation of the house, combined with only using compost to fertilize, the soil might not be rich enough to product blooms on the clematis.
It's also possible that if you use lawn fertilizers, there is a higher nitrogen content in the area, which will allow the plant to produce healthy leaves, but not blooms. Is that a grass that you have planted near the clematis? It looks like it healthy and growing well, which could be an indication that there is a higher nitrogen content in the soil and not enough phosphorus and potassium. A soil test could confirm the nutrient levels of the soil or you can do what most of us do and just get a good fertilizer with a low level of nitrogen.
I would remove the long vines, check how damp the soil is in the area, and fertilize. Keep in mind that it could just be a bad plant, so you have to decide how long you are willing to fuss with it.
jen, here is my tonic recipe...it didn't help my sickly belle of w, but i like to pass it along as folks enjoy using it. and i have had nice results on some clems with it.
i bought this one the internet a few years ago, and love to pass it along.
1 can beer
1 cup epsom salts
half cup ammonia
2 cups water
mix together and then use 1 ounce to a gallon of water to give peakish plants a boost. i usually use a 12 oz beer, so this would be 40 ounces, enough to make 40 gallons of solution. so maybe make half? if i do a whole batch and hand water all my clems with it, as i have been known to do it takes all 40 gallons and about 2 hours if i do not sidetrack into trimming, weeding, photographing or otherwise enjoying the life of a gardener.
cut it down to two leaf nodes form the ground when you fertilize it or use the tonic and see what happens.
keep us posted, ok?
Thanks all for the concern & suggestions! The house is 81 years old. When we moved in 5 years ago, there was nothing in the front beds but overgrown (and half dead) yews and lava rock. We have spent the last four summers cutting down and pulling out yew stumps (we left two yews in for foundation planting and I also planted an oak leaf hydrangea and plan to put in a korean spice viburnum this fall) as well as digging up and throwing out that horrid lava rock. I have put layer after layer of composted manure, fresh topsoil and mulch down in this area. There is clay in the soil but in the area where the clematis is planted there is not so much. CG, you mentioned that the soil looked compacted; it's actually not really. We do fertilize the lawn but not religiously, and I have never put anything but manure or standard Miracle Gro around the clem. That ornamental grass is doing well, but it does well everywhere I've seen it around here (Chicago area) with no special treatment. If there is a high nitrogen content to the soil, would that affect the blooming of other plants? My daisies bloomed beautifully, and I have spring bulbs there too that bloomed well (tulips, crocuses & hyacinths), as well as some kind of primrose. I also have a regular old coneflower, planted last fall, that is about to bloom. No blooms on the hollyhocks, but I don't expect any as they were just planted this spring. I actually bought a pH soil tester but haven't used it (and that won't tell me about the nitrogen & phosphorus and stuff, right? I'd have to send a sample away or is there a kit you can buy for that too?)
And there's something else I haven't mentioned (I feel kind of sheepish about this) . . . I actually planted a second clem last fall next to this older one in hopes that I'd have two different colors growing together. I think the second one is doing ok, although of course not nearly as tall as the first, and not blooming either. So I really have some incentive to try and fix this . . . and if I can't then I have definitely learned a lot from it!
Therefore I think I will try your tonic, CG . . . when you say make half, do you mean pour 20 gallons of this solution on it at once?
no , make half and then you have the solution to enhance 20 gallons of water. i usually put it on soil that is not bone dry, maybe having been watered earlier in the day with plain water or after a rain and put about a quart or so on each plant when i use it. don't measure how much each one gets at that time.
was thinking that will be a big batch for you but you can cut it down to make less. then use 1 oz of the solution for each gallon of water.
post a pic of the other clem. does it have multiple stems and vigor?
sounds like you are on top of the soil thing, altho not clear on how you ammended the soil you planted the clem in. clems have a wide degree of acidity and alkaline range ...any good garden soil works. i ammend the soil as mentioned prior as my soil is clay based and needs aerating and lightening for drainage and to even quality as "good garden soil"
did we chat thru drainage? all the plants you have growing in the area are plants that grow most anywhere in any conditions, the shrubs, the grasses, the echinacea ...very tolerant of anything are all of those.
personally i wouldn't test the soil, i never do.might be interesting, but if other things are doing well...... clems are adaptable if drainage is good and moisture adequate. lets chat on hydration for a minute. assuming drainage is adequate, clems need deep watering on a regular basis. in hot weather probably a gallon twice a week or similar. all the other plants you have mentioned and i saw can dry out more than a clem would thrive on. overwatering kills more clems than underwatering in the small stages, but is the soil dry? clems do better when the water is not sprinkled, sprinkling doesn't hurt the plant when there is airflow and no overcrowding, but you need to make sure it is getting a big, deep drink on a regular basis.
if i see the other clem and feel good about it and you are certain drainage and hydration are ok, you have a bad plant. just replace it and move on. you do not have a high nitrogen content as your leaves are not drak green, glossy and vigrous. that is not the issue here. the plant is weak, small, unusual coloring and not thriving. that doesnot speak to too much nitrogen i do not believe.
The soil drains well. I have a soaker hose running through there but have only had it on once this year; we've had SOOO much rain. I actually just turned it on now; they've been predicting rain for the last 2 days but we haven't had any. I got down on my hands and knees just now and looked at the other plant . . . not what I'd call vigorous. But the leaves do look better, in my uneducated opinion, than the leaves of what we will refer to as the jackmanii. Here is a picture of the leaves of the texensis (sorry, it's cloudy here today so my flash went off, makes it look like the photo was taken at night):
Edited to say that I didn't realize how out of focus this shot was . . . drat my cheap camera! Compared to the jackmanii leaves, the texensis leaves are darker green and healthier looking.
This message was edited Jun 30, 2009 1:47 PM
And here is the puny little stem:
And here is a closeup of the stems of the jackmanii . . . most of them seem to be brown and dead, which would mean that the ones climbing up the trellis are only the tops of two or 3 stems?
OK.texensis can be hard to establish in terms of how long they take. they are prone to powdery mildew in our zones, so keep airflow good and do overcrowd base of clem. jacks take a while too, but yours is not thriving to say the least. cut it down as previously mentioned , fertilize and make sure you are giving it enough water throughout the whole growing season.
the texensis looks ok, but can't hurt to treat that one the same as the jack as it is not a plant you are going to get spectacular beauty from this season. so treat both as young clems with periodic pruning to encourage new shoots, fertilizer and deep water.
now for the serious advice. start a vitacella clem, or two or three somewhere else on your property. if they are still open to ship, order one from silver star vinery (silverstarvinery.co) or buy a local well rooted clem in a gallon pot. DO NOT buy a small plant from home depot or similar or order one that is not a good size root. if brushwood is still shipping (brushwood garden vines) they have nicely rooted clems and are a pleasure to deal with. if ssv or bw are not shipping to your area, i'd wait till "fall" to plant.....you make extra work for yourself and distress for the plant to do it in the heat of summer. but you can plant in the summer if you can provide the care they need.
then you can compare the growth and establishment time with the ones up front. i think i get from these communications the texensis not been in as long as the jack, so you don't know if it is going to run into the same problems. and texensis can be harder to establish than vitacellas.....go to another area on your property, get some clems in and bring your personal learning curve along while you wait to see if these can be saved.
you must have an interest to develop if you are problem solving at this level of detail....that is my recommendation. there are some folks on the forum here from chicago (i am not that far away) but they can tell you where to buy locally or even what cultivars they recommend...good luck. get on it with it and see what happens.
Well, I'm kind of stubborn and I hate to fail. I'm a bit of a perfectionist, and somewhat competitive to boot. (I sound charming, don't I?) So this clematis issue has been nagging at me for quite a while. Plus my mom, who enjoys gardening but has always been self-deprecating about her knowledge, has a gorgeous clematis that basically takes care of itself, and she seems to think that if she can grow one, anyone can. So why can't I??? ;)
Ok, good to know about the texensis. I ordered it last fall so it is not even a year old. I got it from Bluestone and picked it because it is the same pruning group as the jackmanii and I thought the colors would be pretty together. Had no idea it was considered "difficult". And I have to say, it was very tiny and didn't come with any kind of instructions about repotting or anything . . . I just put it in the ground because I didn't know any better. You live & learn, I guess.
I just looked at the SSV web site; they are closed until September. Which is good because I'd rather wait until then to do any more planting. I have ordered from Brushwood before and had a good experience. And I promise: NO MORE HD! Haven't bought anything from them since that first year. I now have a favorite local nursery I frequent, or I order from Bluestone, or other top-rated sites. Once I get a couple more years experience under my belt (and my kids are little older -- they're 3 & 2 right now!) I'd like to try growing things from seed . . .
Anyway, thank you so much CG and everyone else for all the time you have put in replying to my questions. I'll keep you posted on our progress.
Update:
Surgery performed and 1 gallon of tonic administered. CG, how often do I apply the tonic and when should I expect to see results, if any?
cool! i would feed it every other week.......some might do it more often, but i would veer on the cautious side....uptake from a weak plant can be poor and not sure if some of those nutrients or ingredients would build up in the soil.
regarding results, you should see them pretty fast, with in 2 feedings i would say (a little over 2 weeks) if this will help. epson salts sometimes starts greening up a plant within 24 hours, but hate to have you measure success or not by that.
the surgery will help the plant a lot. when a vine looks bad to us, imagine the strain on the plant supporting it and trying to heal it. an ugly vine is a sick vine and can't be good for the pant to hang hope you are planting some others in another area, that way if you see great results in the other area and the texensis does not flourish for a while (or ever) and the jack does not respond you will at least know it is the location or plant , not your ability to do well with clems.
have fun!
Hi, I don't know if anyone mentioned in the other posts (I didn't take the time to read all of them), but I know clematis like to have cool roots and being up against a foundation, it tends to be hotter. Your pics don't seem to show mulch. I would try mulching around the clematis to keep the roots cooler. Just a thought.
we kind of had closure here on the thread, but i was thinking about it this morning and wondered if there is an insecticide program in use around the foundation of the house?
the reason i thought of it was that i have some leaves showing markings form my use of bayer 3 in one. nothing that will harm the plant long term, or even that noticable or disfiguring ...but it made me think f that last question about your clems and the site they are in as a variable.
REBLOOMER . . . I had bought cocoa bean shells to use as mulch this year and someone warned me against putting those around clematis as they don't like the acid . . . so I had hoped for my big clump of shasta daisies to shade the roots for me. But maybe I should put a little something around there.
CG . . . insecticides like a service that would come and spray to keep insects out of the house? No, I don't use anything like that. But I am having major problems with something chewing the daylights out of several plants around the clem (coneflower, monarda, potentilla, and many annuals), and I found several japanese beetles this afternoon, so there may be some spot treatment in order shortly . . .
Oh I hope for your sake it really isn't the JB. over a week ago those nasty things came into my yard and within one day destroyed one of my clematis, less than an hour after a bloom would open it would be destroyed beyond recognition of a clem bloom. Now they are trying to go for the leaves that are left after I cut all the top of it off to keep them from continuing to chew on it.
They destroyed my spiderwort the worst and cone flowers and shasta dasies. I've left them up as I didn't want them to go to my other flowers....
Sprayed the Bayer 3 in 1 and really didn't see much change, only to find out a week later after I was seeing less and less was that the next door neighbor set out one of those beetle traps, so for me his trap is pulling them from my front yard flower beds.... thank God.
I wish you luck with trying to get rid of them. If you find something that works please, share with us.
Janet
Janet, there is a whole thread about JBs over on the upper midwest forum, check it out:
http://davesgarden.com/community/forums/t/1001166/
So far I have only come upon single beetles and have been killing them as I find them. I read that spraying them with soapy water (like dish soap and water in a spray bottle) or hand-picking them off the plants and putting them into a bucket of soapy water will kill them as the soap coats their bodies and suffocates them. A lot of people use the Bayer but from what I understand it can take a couple of years of steady use to make a difference. I also heard that you shouldn't crush them as that can cause them to release pheromones (similar to the ones in those traps) and attract more of them. There are a lot of people on here with a lot more experience than I have in dealing with these nasty guys . . . do a little digging and you'll find more answers!
Thanks for the info jcoakley.
I picked up another person's job duties along with my duties and have been so swamped at work that I'm brain dead at the end of the evening... I've not touched my garden for 3 weeks.... what weeds....
Janet